RE: Simple mental exercise to show the irrationality of the Christian God.
April 4, 2012 at 3:28 pm
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm by Boris Spacek.)
Lemme see if I follow you...
Mmm, people often take issue with those two. Let's see where things get rocky for you.
Yup. But also, for all practical purposes, only one outcome is ever possible. Many choices may be at hand--many options before you stand--but only one outcome ever can occur. Even when cats are in a bizarre hybrid state of dead and alive at once, that itself is one outcome.
That's sound...except when you start confusing options with outcomes again. God wouldn't be confused about this either. He'd just see that you have n-many options at hand, but know that you're going to chose Xi, not any of X-i.
Sorry, what's God got to choose? You're doing the choosing.
Ok, so basically, your argument is that if it can be known the outcome of our actions and decisions, we have no control over our actions and decisions. It doesn't matter if God knows them or not; this would work the same if I could read your mind. If you didn't know I was reading your mind and went about your life never in fear of having your future actions known, would you not be exercising freedom of choice? Now let's say you knew someone was predicting your every move. Maybe you'd intentionally try to behave erratically to deceive me, but I'd still have such a good idea of what you consider erratic that I could predict all the same. You'd be fully in control, and I'd be scrambling at my blackboard trying to determine your next thought based on a mound of information I've collected.
I agree that it makes one uneasy to think about how choice seems to disappear when you allow someone to observe your every thought leading up to an act and watch them predict it moments before you do it. Still, you are not controlling a cannonball when you watch it be fired out of a cannon and predict its point of impact. It just makes you good at math.
(January 24, 2012 at 10:54 pm)ThomM Wrote: THE story CANNOT be true - it has an obvious flaw - the claim of Omniscience - that prevents the rest from being true
Mmm, people often take issue with those two. Let's see where things get rocky for you.
(January 24, 2012 at 10:54 pm)ThomM Wrote: IF a god KNEW everything -then ONLY ONE OUTCOME could be possible in ALL instances - only what the god knew.
Yup. But also, for all practical purposes, only one outcome is ever possible. Many choices may be at hand--many options before you stand--but only one outcome ever can occur. Even when cats are in a bizarre hybrid state of dead and alive at once, that itself is one outcome.
(January 24, 2012 at 10:54 pm)ThomM Wrote: Obviously - YOU would be UNABLE to choose to do something the god DID NOT KNOW - so YOU are left - and the god is left - without ANY OPTIONS that could actually be chosen.
That's sound...except when you start confusing options with outcomes again. God wouldn't be confused about this either. He'd just see that you have n-many options at hand, but know that you're going to chose Xi, not any of X-i.
(January 24, 2012 at 10:54 pm)ThomM Wrote: If a god cannot choose - it is NOT almighty.
Sorry, what's God got to choose? You're doing the choosing.
(January 24, 2012 at 10:54 pm)ThomM Wrote: However - the basis for the morality of religion is in the FREEDOM of choice claimed for the humans. IF we DO NOT HAVE freedom of choice - we have not chosen to do anything - and therefore are not responsible for OUR actions
So - either the claim of being ALmighty is false (AS that is falseall by itself as well) - OR the god is omniscient - and NOT almighty - it cannot be both.
Since there is established a direct IMPOSSIBLE contradiction - the story of the god CANNOT BE TRUEI
Ok, so basically, your argument is that if it can be known the outcome of our actions and decisions, we have no control over our actions and decisions. It doesn't matter if God knows them or not; this would work the same if I could read your mind. If you didn't know I was reading your mind and went about your life never in fear of having your future actions known, would you not be exercising freedom of choice? Now let's say you knew someone was predicting your every move. Maybe you'd intentionally try to behave erratically to deceive me, but I'd still have such a good idea of what you consider erratic that I could predict all the same. You'd be fully in control, and I'd be scrambling at my blackboard trying to determine your next thought based on a mound of information I've collected.
I agree that it makes one uneasy to think about how choice seems to disappear when you allow someone to observe your every thought leading up to an act and watch them predict it moments before you do it. Still, you are not controlling a cannonball when you watch it be fired out of a cannon and predict its point of impact. It just makes you good at math.
