Morality

[parttimeprojectionist]

BUT here in lies the problem
using the bible/gods word as an infallible standand of morality is completey fucked. you have a mind please use it. you know that killing is wrong most of the time, that shit is self evident like CoH is saying.

Again it is wrong depending on where and when you have lived.

Unless you goto an absolute standard which says Murder is always wrong.

but your god has supposedly killed off entire cities. thats a huge contradiction(insert starburst ad here).

Because death or causing death in of itself is not a sin. It is the unsanctioned taking of life that makes killing Murder.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i guess i could've gone a little deeper. i didn't say murder is always wrong, there is most def. times to kill.
but i cant think of a single instance where genocide is moral, which is what god supposedly did. and just accepting that as being ok because it was sanctioned by god says a lot about you. it says you are immoral. by any societal standard. unless there is some society who's entire population is made of psychopaths.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

youve discussed slavery already and came to the conclusion that its an analogy used to understand your faith more. but in reality slavery is not moral, the things slavery have accomplished is not a valid arguement.

"Slavery" is a term used in western societies to describe the actions of men living in dark ages to about the mid 1860's. This is not the biblical definition of the term. If you were to only look at what is being described in biblical slavery you would see that everyone who has a job is a slave, every man who has some sort of monthly payment to be a slave, anyone who is apart of a family to be a slave. Anyone who sins as being a bond servant/slave to that sin. We are all slaves all of the time. Western Society doesn't want any rules or regulations telling the slave owners how to manage the people in their care. Which is infact what the bible has done. You see, all "we" had to do is change the meaning of the word, and people like you will not even look to consider what has been done for any of us under the authority of another. Ironically by doing so you bind yourself tighter to the society that has done so much to enslave you to it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i really do understand what your explaining about slavery here. this is first time i have understood the bible in that context. thanks for being the first one to put that into a meaningful explanation, and it does make sense. but what you've done is look at one part and not the other. yes we are slaves to certain things, work, societal norms, familys so on. but there are things in the bible that cant be misconstrued or explained away by analogies or minimized because "slave also meant this". because there are parts that talk about slaves in the exact same context as western society would consider them by any standard.
"The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
there is so much in just this passage,... ethnocentrism, slavery, the idea of land ownership. these are all very western ideas btw.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the bible supports slavery, but this is not moral, its really self evident. basically mans morality changes as it advances, gods does not and this holds back humanity on a shit ton of levels.

What God has done is freed us. Yes we are now bond to Him but under Him our load is light our burdens are gone. By the standards of society of morals you are bound to act, think, and believe a certain way otherwise you are ostracized. Take the time to read some of your peers comments and tell me this is not true. I made the effort to start my own thread, and look at the need and compulsion to preserve the societal idea of morality. (As to not intrude on anyone elses thoughts) Look at the lengths people have gone to trivialize and dismiss what is being said here.. Why? Because you all are bound like slaves to thinking a very specific way, and if anyone opposes the way any of you think, all of these "enlightened free thinking minds" look to tear apart and destroy anyone or any thing that speaks against your societal masters.

That is why the perservation of "morality" is so important as the king of the good standard. This allows you all to judge any thing and any one not living in your scope of the world.

---

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you've kinda made an ignorance is bliss statement here. not being burdened by thinking and changing and evolving, advancing forward and bringing up your fellow human being to the next level. (which is probably what you think your doing, and makes it s own statement about purpose) bring people up to that next level takes effort and most of the times it requires breaking with societal norms. which i feel like you have forgotten that it is atheism is not in within these norms, you and your beliefs are. atheist are the ones ostracized from society. you just happened to be in atheist territory surrounded, so its understandable you would be defensive, as we are also because we always find ourselves on the defensive. moral evolution has an ebb and flow, its doing that as we discuss it right now. but i would think its safe to say it has progressed forward, maybe even because of the bible, but what you believe in is a hinderance to society moving forward.
you say that god takes away your burdens and lightens your load. i could be wrong but maybe you haven't considered that understanding that there is no god is a gigantic burden lifted off you shoulders, the freeing nature of non belief on your mind is indescribable. you see the world for what it is and things make more sense. a lot also doesn't but not in an ignorance is bliss way. those things you don't understand make you want to know more. (did that sound gay?LOL. o well)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are various ( scientific ) explanations on why we humans have morals. Some say that it is a side effect of evolution. Incest, for example, is taboo because it can cause genetic defects, and so will be detrimental to the species ( as seen in any royal family ). The behaviour that generally classifies as moral evolved because they offer some evolutionary benefit.

Other theories and tests suggest that morality is due to empathy, which is also supported by mental illnesses that cause immoral behaviour, such as psychopathy, which is largely characterised by a lack of empathy.

In my opinion, it is much more likely that religion comes from morality, and a lack of understanding of it and other things, than vice versa.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, this
in reality man wrote the bible as a moral code which probably was kinda useful then but society has moved on, or at least is trying to.

so if i could try to summarize where we are at here for you,( ill probably fuck this up but whatev)
you've done your part of explaining that xtains(which autocorrects to stains! holy fuck thats awesome) believe gods morals are the absolute unchanging standard.
you have said that mans morality "changes" , in some way shape or form most here agree. it changes. CoH maintains that its constant, i would tend to agree with that but only the part about "we shouldn't go killing motherfuckers fo no reason an shit". that has more than likely been with us since we've been on earth.
we are saying(or at least i am) moral change is good and necessary.
and also that god doesn't exist so your unchanging standard got no legs...

other problems-
by gods own standards god is immoral
you accept this
you seem to think there is nothing wrong with accepting this
you seem to think that us not accepting this is us conforming to societal norms like slaves
in some fucking kind of paradox, what you believe is the norm(that hurt to type)
we are all bound to societal norms
they change
yours dont