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Natural Evil
#53
RE: Natural Evil
(May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm)apophenia Wrote: The suggestion here that God's actions should not be judged because God's reasons are unknowable runs into issues in much the same way that agnosticism does, making a knowledge claim that knowledge of God is not possible.
Apples and oranges. Inquires about the purposes of God relate to the nature of His Providence. There are two types of providence: general and specific. Knowledge of general providence follows from theological inquiry into the nature of God. Explanations of specific divine actions would not fall within the scope of that kind of inquiry.
(May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm)apophenia Wrote: This also omits the fact that death affects the living as much as the dead. How do you judge me less deserving of salvation because, on account of naturally caused suffering, I turned away from God? Wasn't He in control of the cause of my turning away?
No. Because suffering could just as easily have led you to lean on Him even more in your time of distress.
(May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm)apophenia Wrote: Now that we have the text before us, please show where God is claiming that his moral judgements are beyond our ken.
In the text God repeatedly demonstrates that his knowledge exceeds that of Job. Job is forced to admit that he cannot answer any of God’s questions. Thus God’s judgments are based on more information than would be available to Job.
(May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm)apophenia Wrote: And … contradicts Genesis 3:21-23…The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil
Again, apples and oranges. Knowledge of good and evil intent and is not the same as having complete understanding of the circumstances surrounding a moral dilemma or certainty about the outcomes of our decisions.
(May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm)apophenia Wrote: And despite one attempt, the question of what is a baby has gone unanswered.
New Church doctrines on the eternal fate of those that die at very young ages is very clear and also differs significantly from those of most other Christian denominations. Freedom does not depend on the presence of evil. Children adopted by the Lord still have freedom because in heaven you can still choose between greater and a lesser goods. The Lord draws all men unto Him. The damned are those that resist that invitation. Everyone does not have the same temptations. The natural bodily appetites of the young which would in later life lead them into sin are offset by their innocent dependence. As such they transfer the desires for security and comfort into a willingness to be led by the Lord. As soon as they are taken into heaven, they are raised by angels who receive them as their own. Under the Lord's adoption these children are educated and instructed as they grow in intelligence and stature. All infants who die as such are saved and become angels. It is however possible for a man who lives out his span on earth to come into as perfect a state as that of those educated in heaven: provided only that he removes the loves of self and the world and receives spiritual loves in their stead. "For there is the same in him as in the infant." (Heaven and Hell 345e)
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Messages In This Thread
Natural Evil - by Tobie - May 14, 2012 at 1:32 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Annik - May 14, 2012 at 1:39 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Polaris - May 18, 2012 at 9:02 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Reforged - May 14, 2012 at 1:43 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by kılıç_mehmet - May 14, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Annik - May 14, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Tobie - May 14, 2012 at 2:31 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by kılıç_mehmet - May 14, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Tobie - May 14, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by kılıç_mehmet - May 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Minimalist - May 14, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by LastPoet - May 14, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 14, 2012 at 5:03 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 14, 2012 at 5:19 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 14, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 14, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 14, 2012 at 6:40 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 14, 2012 at 6:46 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by genkaus - May 14, 2012 at 7:00 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 14, 2012 at 6:49 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 14, 2012 at 6:52 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 14, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 15, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: Natural Evil - by genkaus - May 15, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 15, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Natural Evil - by genkaus - May 15, 2012 at 1:29 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Markos - May 14, 2012 at 6:59 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 14, 2012 at 7:01 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 14, 2012 at 11:03 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by genkaus - May 14, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 14, 2012 at 8:15 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 5:24 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 8:32 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Aiza - May 15, 2012 at 7:03 am
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 15, 2012 at 7:11 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Aiza - May 15, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Anomalocaris - May 15, 2012 at 3:09 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Aiza - May 15, 2012 at 3:56 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Reforged - May 15, 2012 at 7:30 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Mister Agenda - May 15, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 15, 2012 at 11:04 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 15, 2012 at 11:20 am
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 15, 2012 at 11:34 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 15, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 15, 2012 at 12:12 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 15, 2012 at 12:43 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 16, 2012 at 5:34 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Welsh cake - May 15, 2012 at 1:40 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 15, 2012 at 3:02 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 3:30 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 15, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 15, 2012 at 5:36 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 5:35 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 15, 2012 at 8:36 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 15, 2012 at 11:42 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 15, 2012 at 11:42 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 15, 2012 at 11:56 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 16, 2012 at 1:50 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 16, 2012 at 1:29 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 16, 2012 at 1:53 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Welsh cake - May 16, 2012 at 3:36 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 16, 2012 at 3:47 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Tobie - May 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 16, 2012 at 3:20 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 16, 2012 at 8:32 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 17, 2012 at 12:31 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 16, 2012 at 9:01 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by padraic - May 16, 2012 at 9:53 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 16, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 16, 2012 at 11:34 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 17, 2012 at 6:19 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 17, 2012 at 1:02 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 17, 2012 at 8:35 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 17, 2012 at 7:26 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 17, 2012 at 1:51 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 17, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Neo-Scholastic - May 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Angrboda - May 17, 2012 at 8:50 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Welsh cake - May 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Ryft - May 18, 2012 at 5:26 am
RE: Natural Evil - by NoMoreFaith - May 18, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 18, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 20, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm
RE: Natural Evil - by Gambit - May 20, 2012 at 8:54 am
RE: Natural Evil - by Godschild - May 20, 2012 at 5:40 pm

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