I love and hate discussions like this. I love them when science is talking about science. I hate them though when a theist tries to insert a who with the stupid "painting has a painter" argument.
It is true we do not know at this point. But even Hawkins has said that a god is not required. I agree.
If one can accept that a hurricane is not caused by an ocean god, but the conditions of the atmosphere why cant the universe be the product of conditions and not a who?
The other thing theists miss is that nature is not all random or all predictable. A hurricane starts out because of multiple smaller factors. The conditions are predictable, but the exact number of clouds, shape, exact number of raindrops and the individual paths of each raindrop are the random part.
Science could go either way as far as this universe being the product of the death of a prior one, or it could be that this all came from nothing, we simply do not know. But whatever happened does not require a thinking entity to cause it.
And the theist would be, even if we said a god was required, which I flat out reject, would still be stuck with "which one"? And how convenient it always leads to the one they claim.
I like to ask the claimants of the god caused universe, would they buy this argument from someone with a different god claim?
It is true we do not know at this point. But even Hawkins has said that a god is not required. I agree.
If one can accept that a hurricane is not caused by an ocean god, but the conditions of the atmosphere why cant the universe be the product of conditions and not a who?
The other thing theists miss is that nature is not all random or all predictable. A hurricane starts out because of multiple smaller factors. The conditions are predictable, but the exact number of clouds, shape, exact number of raindrops and the individual paths of each raindrop are the random part.
Science could go either way as far as this universe being the product of the death of a prior one, or it could be that this all came from nothing, we simply do not know. But whatever happened does not require a thinking entity to cause it.
And the theist would be, even if we said a god was required, which I flat out reject, would still be stuck with "which one"? And how convenient it always leads to the one they claim.
I like to ask the claimants of the god caused universe, would they buy this argument from someone with a different god claim?
