German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault

[Thor]

What is a valid medical reason?

An instance when a condition is present that must be treated, and failure to treat will likely result in death, loss of a major life function or serious illness. A circumcision fails under the "when a condition is present that must be treated" requirement.

Parents can do lots of things to their kids without the child's consent. Should spanking be a crime? Grounding?

Should sending a kid to bed at 8:00 be a crime? How about not buying them the latest video game? None of these things result in a permanent modification to the child's body. As for spanking, an open handed swat on the kid's backside is harmless. Anything that leaves bruises, scars, etc. would be (and in most places is) a crime.

That wasn't my point. All I said is that your argument isn't as strong against circumcision for older patients.

To a point, this is true. However, if someone is under 18 they can still be pressured by the parents to undergo a procedure they don't want. The younger they are, the more this is true. So why not wait until they reach 18?

Why perform an unnecessary procedure when there is a real risk that a vital part of someone's body can be damaged?

Because the procedure is thought to have benefits that justify the cost.

And the "benefits" to a circumcision are.....?

What if there was a religious ritual where some sort of substance was poured into your eyes. And what if this substance was usually harmless, but there was a 1 in 10,000 chance that it could make you go blind? Would you take that chance? I wouldn't.

What you personally wouldn't choose to do is irrelevant.

The question was directed at you.

Piercing ears?

Piercing ears does not cause a permanent body modification. If the person grows up and decides they don't want pierced ears, they can remove their earrings and the holes will close up. That being said, I was in a mall once and passed a salon where they were preparing to pierce the ears of a little girl who looked to be about six. The kid was fine and smiling until they pulled the trigger and the needle went through the kid's earlobe. At that point, the kid screamed and started crying. I always wondered how they managed to get the kid to sit still so they could do the other ear. Personally, I think this was pretty horrible. The kid was obviously in severe pain. It seems to me that the kid should be old enough to understand what happens when the ears are pierced, and the kid should want this to be performed. I would say 12 or so is a proper age.

Right, and fixing cleft lips could be described as "taking sharp objects to the mouths of innocent children".

And this is similar to circumcision.... how? Oral surgery fixes a problem. A circumcision fixes nothing.

Your cheap emotional bullshit is irrelevant; we're talking about principles.

So the principle that a person (no matter how young) should consent to unnecessary medical procedures where a body part is removed means nothing to you?