(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But even Atheists upon reading it, tend to remain agnostic towards a benevolent Creator. This tells you, that even they are not 100% convinced, even thought it is a very strong argument.
I think you mean "Theists" here.
(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: One thing I want to come to an agreement is, that if God wanted to be known, it doesn't make any sense to me, that his proof would lie either in the scientific method or philosophy.
Actually, that would make more sense. Throughout history, scientific method and philosophy have shown to be means to gain reliable, certain knowledge. So, if he wanted to be known then that would be the best way to go about it.
(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Then faith in God would not be spiritual, but it would rather be like belief in a mathematical proof. It would not be a connection to him, but some analytic cold hard proof.
Non sequitur. Knowledge of god's existence has nothing to do with faith in god and spirituality has never been established as a necessary precondition.
(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What seems to be the case, is rather being a Unique being, this knowledge of him would be a unique type of knowledge, and would be of a spiritual nature.
Unnecessary. Just because it is a unique being does not mean that it cannot be known by the usual means and even is the means were unique, they would not necessarily be spiritual.
(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The issue is such, such knowledge would not really in the realms of either philosophy or science. It cannot be proven by either.
Your mistake here is the assumption that knowledge is possible outside the realm of philosophy or science. Without a sound grounding in philosophy or science, words such as knowledge or proof are meaningless.
(July 17, 2012 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Moreover, it seems no one would want to ever rely on a argument, no matter how seemingly convincing, as we know arguments time and time again have been debunked.
So it's rather a matter of choice.
Do you believe your belief in God is a delusion?
Do you believe your belief in God is justified or knowledge?
Perhaps if God exists, he doesn't want us relying on rigorous mathematical type proof of his existence, but rather to look upon him with the eyes of the soul.
Now I understand people here don't believe such knowledge or "seeing" is possible.
But really - there is no arguments to prove either way in a conclusive manner. There is a strong argument of evil (different from the classical one), I understand that, but people remain agnostics even with that argument, so if you are not convinced yourself 100%, then sympathize with others not being convinced of that...
Actually, there is a way to conclusively prove it. If we can establish that knowledge "through the eyes of soul" is not possible, then we can establish that any such purported knowledge is a delusion.
