Prayer?

[Drich]

So..."jesus" was a liar, according to you?

Matthew 21:

21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Maybe it only works on fig trees and mountains? That would seem to make it fairly fucking worthless...unless you grow figs on a mountain.

two seperat things here.. Unless you believe christ prayed that the fig tree would never bear fruit again before He cursed it, and also we have the model of what a prayer is, and drying up fig trees moving mountains has nothing to do with prayer. the bit about the mountains and fig trees was about simple faith and the authority given them. It had nothing to do with what they asked in prayer.

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Does everyone know the difference between chanting, petition and prayer? More often than not when people say they 'pray' they are actually petitioning God for things they want. Making Prayer little more than a formal wishing cermony. God is not a magical genie who's job it is to grant you wishes. Nor is He obligated to hear or respond to wishes.

At the same time Prayer is not a rehearsed or practice chant. Christ says the Father hates these meaningless many worded chants. at first glance the Lord's prayer is one of these chants, but upon closer inspection we find an outline rather than a perscribed word for word prayer/chant.

Does anyone want to know or discuss the formula behind the outline? It will transform a wishing cermony into a prayer that God will respond to.

So if it is not to ask god for favours, what then is the point of prayer?

In short, to train you to seek God's will over your own. If you can accept this you will absolutly have everything you have prayed for and more!

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As far as I am to understand the Chants, petitions and prayers are used by arrogant religous people to subvert their god's will.

Indeed.

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In my experience, the whole purpose of praying is to give the person doing it a chance to tell you they're doing it ("Hey, look how selfless I'm being just for you!"). Else what's the point, if nobody knows? If prayer worked at all, it would work regardless of whether the prayee knows you've done it.

It's like using the ignore facility here; you can quietly stick some arsehole on ignore, or you can make a Busby Berkeley production number about doing it so nobody is in any doubt.

Again I agree the self righteous have taken over prayer for their own glory and gain.

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But doesn't "God" have a plan? And if he answers your prayers, wouldn't that cause him to alter his plan?
"Dear God, please cure me of my cancer. It hurts me a lot and I'm tired of being in hospitals all the time. I just want to run and play with the other kids. And my mommy cries all the time."

God: YOU WANT ME TO CURE YOUR CANCER? DON'T YOU REALIZE I HAVE A PLAN AND YOUR CANCER IS PART OF THAT PLAN?!?!? YOU WANT ME TO ALTER MY PLAN FOR THE UNIVERSE JUST FOR YOU!?!? LEAVE ME ALONE YA LITTLE BRAT!

What if the same mechinism that allows for freewill also caused all manner of suffering? (like cancer) Would you be willing to give up your free will to cure billy's cancer?

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Does everyone know the difference between chanting, petition and prayer?

I would have thought prayer was somewhere between an incantation and talking to yourself in your head. Is there really any more to it than that?

you have a fair assessment on what prayer has become, and it can mean more but it depends on who you ask.