Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 21, 2025, 4:58 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Prayer?
#86
RE: Prayer?
Drich Wrote:What fails is that you do not understand what 'tool' Is being discussed. The 'tool' or gun here is free will or the ablity to sin. God knew the evil that would come of our ablity to be outside of His expressed will and provided attonement for it (so it did take into account God's omnipotence even if you could not connect the dots on your own) We were given 'freewill' and we misused it. We took that tool and turned it on God to be outside of His expressed will, rather to be in it and under His protection. Protection (among other things) from things like cancer in our children.

Whether the 'tool' is free will or a gun is irrelevant. What is relevant is an omnipotent, omniscient deity's culpability in giving human beings this tool when it would cause such horrible things as a child being ravaged and eventually killed by a horrible disease. When you take into account that the reason he gave us free will was simply so we could choose whether or not to do what he wanted us to, said deity becomes a sadistic bastard. Your god is more concerned with playing games with people's souls than alleviating suffering.

'Drich Wrote:So i ask again if the cure for cancer (even timmy's) came at the cost of 'free will' would you gladly give up your free will? will you give back your gun?

Absolutely, I would give it up in a second if that meant that no one had to be ravished by cancer, raped, molested, tortured, or murdered. What disturbs me, however, is you seem to be asking this as some kind of 'gotcha' question as if you believed my answer would be no. Which leads me to think that your answer to the question is no.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 12:16 am
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 3, 2012 at 12:27 am
RE: Prayer? - by Jackalope - August 3, 2012 at 12:32 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 5:34 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 3, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 6:59 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2012 at 12:34 am
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 3, 2012 at 1:03 am
RE: Prayer? - by FallentoReason - August 3, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 3, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Prayer? - by C.W. Sims - August 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 3, 2012 at 9:22 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cinjin - August 5, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 5, 2012 at 9:44 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 10:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 3, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 3, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: Prayer? - by FallentoReason - August 3, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Prayer? - by C.W. Sims - August 3, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 6:03 pm
RE: Prayer? - by C.W. Sims - August 3, 2012 at 6:31 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 10:09 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 4, 2012 at 1:47 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 4, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 4, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 6, 2012 at 4:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Godschild - August 5, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 6, 2012 at 4:43 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2012 at 1:10 am
RE: Prayer? - by Shell B - August 3, 2012 at 1:29 am
RE: Prayer? - by Zen Badger - August 3, 2012 at 6:41 am
RE: Prayer? - by KichigaiNeko - August 3, 2012 at 7:21 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 3, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Anomalocaris - August 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 3, 2012 at 12:53 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Godschild - August 3, 2012 at 1:20 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 3, 2012 at 2:00 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Godschild - August 4, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 4, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Anomalocaris - August 3, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 3, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Annik - August 3, 2012 at 2:08 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Anomalocaris - August 3, 2012 at 2:11 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 3, 2012 at 2:12 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 3, 2012 at 5:53 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 3, 2012 at 5:55 pm
RE: Prayer? - by pgrimes15 - August 5, 2012 at 7:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 1:01 pm
RE: Prayer? - by downbeatplumb - August 5, 2012 at 1:15 pm
RE: Prayer? - by pgrimes15 - August 5, 2012 at 2:40 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 5, 2012 at 3:02 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 6:36 pm
RE: Prayer? - by C.W. Sims - August 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 3, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 3, 2012 at 6:52 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 3, 2012 at 7:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 3, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 3, 2012 at 9:59 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 4, 2012 at 12:56 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2012 at 7:47 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 3, 2012 at 10:05 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 4, 2012 at 1:59 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cato - August 4, 2012 at 6:37 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 4, 2012 at 7:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 4, 2012 at 11:32 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 4, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 4, 2012 at 11:50 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 5, 2012 at 10:22 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 4, 2012 at 7:47 pm
RE: Prayer? - by KichigaiNeko - August 5, 2012 at 7:45 am
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 5, 2012 at 1:55 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 5, 2012 at 3:02 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 5, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Erinome - August 5, 2012 at 3:39 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Deicide73 - August 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 5, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 6:46 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 5, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 12:34 am
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 6, 2012 at 2:14 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 6, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 6, 2012 at 10:20 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 7, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 5, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 5, 2012 at 7:54 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 5, 2012 at 9:33 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 5, 2012 at 9:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 5, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 12:18 am
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 6, 2012 at 12:27 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 6, 2012 at 1:18 am
RE: Prayer? - by KichigaiNeko - August 6, 2012 at 2:21 am
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 6, 2012 at 8:44 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 9:15 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 11:08 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 1:53 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 2:44 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 6, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 6, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Erinome - August 6, 2012 at 2:51 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cinjin - August 6, 2012 at 11:02 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 2:54 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 4:20 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 4:43 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 9:29 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 9:49 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 6, 2012 at 11:03 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 9:34 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 9:36 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 6, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cinjin - August 6, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 11:23 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 6, 2012 at 11:37 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2012 at 11:43 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 7, 2012 at 1:05 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 7, 2012 at 4:11 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 7, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 7, 2012 at 8:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 7, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 8, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Prayer? - by Whateverist - August 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 7, 2012 at 12:30 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2012 at 4:14 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 7, 2012 at 10:00 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 8, 2012 at 1:30 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cato - August 8, 2012 at 2:09 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 8, 2012 at 4:03 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 9, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 9, 2012 at 11:37 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 8, 2012 at 1:52 am
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 8, 2012 at 3:54 am
RE: Prayer? - by Anomalocaris - August 8, 2012 at 2:19 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 8, 2012 at 4:31 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 12, 2012 at 1:06 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 9, 2012 at 12:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 9, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 9, 2012 at 12:32 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 10, 2012 at 12:04 am
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 10, 2012 at 12:54 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cato - August 10, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 10, 2012 at 12:00 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 10, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 10, 2012 at 1:17 am
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 10, 2012 at 7:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 10, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 10, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 10, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 10, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 10, 2012 at 11:40 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 11, 2012 at 12:24 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 11, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 11, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 11, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 11, 2012 at 12:45 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 11, 2012 at 9:13 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 11, 2012 at 12:59 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 11, 2012 at 12:53 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 11, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Prayer? - by ElDinero - August 11, 2012 at 4:56 am
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 11, 2012 at 5:56 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 11, 2012 at 3:27 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 11, 2012 at 4:52 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 11, 2012 at 6:04 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 11, 2012 at 9:22 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 11, 2012 at 10:20 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 11, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 12, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 12, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 12, 2012 at 12:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 12, 2012 at 5:15 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Tobie - August 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 13, 2012 at 9:31 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 13, 2012 at 1:06 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 1:09 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 13, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 13, 2012 at 1:42 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 12:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 13, 2012 at 12:48 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 13, 2012 at 3:28 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 14, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 14, 2012 at 1:35 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 14, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 14, 2012 at 2:46 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 14, 2012 at 6:36 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 15, 2012 at 12:23 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 16, 2012 at 9:00 am
RE: Prayer? - by Thor - August 16, 2012 at 4:36 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 16, 2012 at 7:31 pm
RE: Prayer? - by ElDinero - August 12, 2012 at 6:03 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 12, 2012 at 5:31 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 12, 2012 at 10:47 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 13, 2012 at 1:32 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 13, 2012 at 4:30 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 14, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 14, 2012 at 12:56 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Skepsis - August 14, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 14, 2012 at 1:58 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 13, 2012 at 5:56 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Zen Badger - August 12, 2012 at 7:16 am
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 12, 2012 at 11:34 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Tobie - August 12, 2012 at 5:11 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Gambit - August 12, 2012 at 12:13 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2012 at 9:26 am
RE: Prayer? - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - August 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 13, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by Undeceived - August 13, 2012 at 12:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 13, 2012 at 12:30 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 13, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Faith No More - August 13, 2012 at 7:40 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 13, 2012 at 10:27 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Prayer? - by Tobie - August 14, 2012 at 3:26 am
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 14, 2012 at 8:25 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2012 at 8:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2012 at 10:48 am
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 14, 2012 at 2:03 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2012 at 5:27 pm
RE: Prayer? - by padraic - August 16, 2012 at 9:39 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Jackalope - August 16, 2012 at 11:50 am
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 16, 2012 at 9:19 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 19, 2012 at 2:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Reforged - August 20, 2012 at 7:31 am
RE: Prayer? - by FallentoReason - August 21, 2012 at 2:31 am
RE: Prayer? - by Lion IRC - August 23, 2012 at 2:38 am
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 21, 2012 at 6:16 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2012 at 4:49 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 20, 2012 at 6:40 am
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 20, 2012 at 4:30 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 20, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 20, 2012 at 11:13 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 21, 2012 at 8:51 am
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 21, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 21, 2012 at 5:24 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 21, 2012 at 5:44 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Drich - August 21, 2012 at 5:58 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Minimalist - August 20, 2012 at 11:21 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Ryantology - August 21, 2012 at 2:35 am
RE: Prayer? - by Epimethean - August 21, 2012 at 9:23 am
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2012 at 5:35 pm
RE: Prayer? - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Prayer? - by Cyberman - August 23, 2012 at 10:01 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Please help prayer to get maaried soon for my mom heath.! meboxem166 21 4475 April 1, 2023 at 5:52 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  The Catholic Church has a prayer app zebo-the-fat 5 1043 January 21, 2019 at 11:00 am
Last Post: zebo-the-fat
  Intercessory prayer is pointless RobbyPants 93 16689 October 27, 2018 at 6:33 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Group prayer on Skype on behalf of our Christian members I_am_not_mafia 132 23992 May 26, 2018 at 1:22 pm
Last Post: I_am_not_mafia
  God limits himself to working through prayer phoenix31 14 4576 January 28, 2017 at 1:26 am
Last Post: Silver
  The problem with prayer. Gawdzilla 286 42848 August 31, 2016 at 2:38 am
Last Post: Incognito
Heart The power of prayer JBrentonK 87 19448 October 16, 2015 at 11:12 am
Last Post: Homeless Nutter
  Stupid, selfish prayer requests Aroura 13 5133 May 31, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Last Post: Salacious B. Crumb
  Fallacies in an "Answered Prayer" explanation? Clueless Morgan 33 9395 April 26, 2015 at 1:48 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Atheist surprised when god answered his prayer Silver 74 20942 March 16, 2015 at 11:11 am
Last Post: KevinM1



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)