RE: Prayer?
August 6, 2012 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 6, 2012 at 3:37 pm by Skepsis.)
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote:Sooo... none?(August 6, 2012 at 2:14 am)Skepsis Wrote: Their only company being each other and God. How much trickery and manipulation do you think they had to go through?The 'Garden' has been guessitmated to be 2/3s the size of North America. If Adam and Eve live there for trillions of Years probably very little. It is most likly even after trillions of years a space as large as may have been, they simply did everything their was to do been everywhere 1000 times and just got bored. Which would explain their proximity to the tree planted in the center of the garden when they were tempted.. Because it is the only thing there that was still a mystery to them.
The blame lies on God even more so with this theory. First of all, trillions of years? Really? You can't assume that, just because there was no timeline, A&E lived for trillions of years.
Second, if God created them with curiosity and made it so they would live forever, whose fault is it when they run out of things to question and test?He put them in a confined environment and allowed them infinite life.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: They were being 'fooled' they were lied to so as to allow them to full fill their want and desire. God told them the truth, and they wanted to believe a lie.Eve knew that Satan was lying? How? Animals never meant any harm before, why should she suspect anything? Eve only heard this command secondhand from Adam, so it held less authority. Then a magic snake comes and fools the most gullible one, and the blame is on them? Nope, I still don't see it.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: Don't look at it as punishment. it was a consenquence of their actions. Either one is in god's will or he is not. until Christ there wasn no in between.But it was a punishment. It was detrimental to the people and was a consequence, making it a punishment. A punishment for something they shouldn't have been expected to follow through with anyway.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: The point was Choice. satan was apart of that Choice. where it was something Satan wanted to be apart of or not god used what happened in the Garden to give everyone the oppertunity to choose whether or not they want to be with God for eternity.Humans are easily fooled. We can't even tell reality from a dream half the time. I hear Satan's name means "deceiver". With Eve having little knowledge of God firsthand, she was the perfect target for being fooled. Both of them knew nothing about malevolent people or things trying to trick them, and were perfect targets. God knew all this and allowed Satan to continue in his existence anyway. You are trying to blame the victim, even if the scenario is in a fairytale.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: not evil, choice. Choice was always apart of God's equasion from the beginning. Otherwise why would he plant the tree of Knoweledge in the garden in the first place? satan verbalized the discontentment they both felt and then provided an avenue for them to act on what they were not supposed to have.And the bald man wanted hair so much he purchased snake oil from the salesman, despite the fact it would bankrupt his family.
Their fault was gullibility, even though they had no experience with other people? Keep in mind that even people who have been fooled before and are aware of the phenomenon can still be gullible.
Quote:Sorry, should have been more clear. Real evidence.(August 5, 2012 at 6:46 pm)Drich Wrote: what are you talking about? Before God issued the commandments He either talked to people directly or through a Phophet.Quote:Evidence?The Old testament.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote:And your Bible tells you soooo...Quote: Before Christianity was founded he was saying this?Yes
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote:and God didn't know that we would act in this way? He knew we would see through that kind of crap? First the Bible says, "Gullibility is bad, original sin". Then it says, "gullibility is preferable, if we were more gullible we could have heard and embraced God".Quote: Either his creation is so stupid that we can't grasp it after so many attempts, or God is awful at conveying his message.Or we could just not want to hear what God has to say.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote:LolwutQuote:Sin is simply unjust...And we are 'unjust' to sin.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: Do forget He also provides attonement for sin so we are not longer bound to it.A blood sacrifice scapegoat? Why doesn't he just forgive us and recognize us for who he created us as? Why doesn't he have compassion for the creations he supposedly knows everything about? Killing and resurrecting someone is hardly a sacrifice, common sense tells us that. Why not just recognize our faults and be forgiving, rather than forcing a belief on everyone? 'Tis silly.
(August 6, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote: this world, this life is not our final desitnation. it is simply a proving grounds. we have been given this life to make a choice as to how we wish to spend eternity. God has removed Himself from this equasion unless you seek Him out, so you can make a choice based on what your heart truly wants. If you want god's help in your personal life then seek him out as outlined in the bible if not then you are free to do as you will. This could not happen if the Presents of God hovered over every desision we made and corrected the really bad ones.Sooooo... prayer doesn't work? You didn't answer my objection, you just offered me the common Xtian babble. I am not one of your sheep. That shit doesn't work on a questioning individual.
As it is we make a choice and deal with the consenquences no matter what that means.
Either take back the part about God being blameless, or take back the part about prayer being futile.
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell