[quote='Skepsis' pid='320201' dateline='1344306045']
[quote]Dude... where in the name of Cthulhu are you talking about? If an "evolutionist" is a person who believes evolution to be scientific theory, then I guess I am one. If an evolutionist is a person that believes the universe to be trillions of years old while simultaneously being 6,000 years old, that the universe was created, and that Adam and Eve existed, then I am surely not one and I might be so bold as to say that nobody is one. Seriously? Is this the extent of your knowledge on biological and cosmic evolution? Normally I would think you were a troll or a Poe, but seeing your other posts you are indeed legitimate.
Poor human race.[/quote]
So, because you do not understand a concept that has not been drilled into you, I am the 'slow' one? I reposted my explaination of evolution/creation, and if you wish to have that conversation let's do it there.
[quote]It might not be beyond your fairytale reasoning, but it is beyond scientific fact. For example, we know the universe to be 14.6 billion years old and not trillions.[/quote]again, billion, trillion bazillion, whatever number is currently in vogue for the age of the universe, it fits neatly with in the term "eternity." again if you wish to have this discussion further take it to the other thread. I want to discuss prayer here.
[quote]His best plan was to force continual suffering on the descendents of the first man and woman?
This also rules out free will. If he planned them to do these things and made them knowing they would act in that way, then he "programmed" them. That's all there is to it.[/quote]
It looks like maybe you catching on.
[quote]No choice if there was a predestination for A&E and Satan.[/quote] Oh, oh there you go again! I think you got it.
[quote]Sorry, your just wrong. Even the ever vigilant Superman of anti-gullibility can be fooled.[/quote]You've moved the goal posts again. We weren't talking about people never being fooled. We were talking about people being easy to fool when they are looking for a reason to do something foolish.
[quote]If his plan screws up he isn't some kind of saint for taking responsibility. You have got to be kidding.[/quote]How does it screw up? Oh, you must still think we are working on the old catholic model that says we must be perfect all of the time and spend 2/3s of our time confessing for the 1/3 of our life we dare to live.
Look If God wanted us to live perfect lives in His will all of the time whether we wanted to or not there would not have been an oppertunity for sin planted in the middle of the Garden, nor would satan be allowed in to temp anyone. But he was and the tree was planed in the Garden before A&E were created.
The fall and handing this world over to man was all apart of the process of choosing we have. In order for their to be true choice we must have real options and unregulated consenquences. In order to have this we must live in a world/realm where the presents of God of the knoweledge of God's Glory is not imediatly known.
Otherwise 'choice' would be effected by the knoweledge of God's presents. for instance if we did something really stupid and God saved us from our stupid choices all of the time, then we would modify our lives to live with in His safty net. Like wise if the presents of God were known Or even if their were absolute undisputable verfiable proof of God (like you guys seem to want so badly) then no one would have a choice except to choose Christ.
Contary to popular belief God does not want everyone to goto Heaven. He only wants those who want to be with Him with all of their hearts, Minds, Spirits, and Strength. we know this because this is what He told us in the bible, and subsequently this is what it takes to find Him in this life now.
If it weren't this way, then every self perserving God hating person would seek redemption. Even if they did not really Love God.
With a life lived apart from the known glory of God we will know without doubt what we thought of God. For we will have lived a life dedicated to what we 'thought of God.'
so you see this life was no accident, or a fix for something out of God's control, but the plan from the beginning. Even the suffering we and our children endure, for it puts more distance between God haters and the God they Hate, and It brings those who Love God in closer. All boiling down to your final judgement. so when you are judged you will know where you stand before your sentence is given to you. and you will know for the rest of your existance that God's judgement to be Just.
[quote]Actually, yes you can. Here, I'll show you.
Lets take Spiderman for example. I hate Spiderman and think it is a crap comic, so it is a good target for an analogy.
The question derived from a Spiderman comic? How about, "Did Spiderman swing from webs?"
The answer is no, he didn't. There is no evidence to support this. But according to you, we should believe that he did in fact swing from webs because the comic says so.[/quote]
Moving the Goal post as a Logical fallacy:
Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after a goal has been scored, the goalposts are moved farther to discount the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
[quote]So God has a part in this fucked up world we live in?[/quote]Seriously? reread my second post It explains the difference in prayer and in wish making and God's role in all of it.
[quote]Logic dictates you to do so?
If God has a part in the world through prayer or anything, then he isn't blameless. Hell, he planned it this way. He created this world knowing full well of disease and cancer and war, so he isn't blameless either way.[/quote]
So?
[quote]Dude... where in the name of Cthulhu are you talking about? If an "evolutionist" is a person who believes evolution to be scientific theory, then I guess I am one. If an evolutionist is a person that believes the universe to be trillions of years old while simultaneously being 6,000 years old, that the universe was created, and that Adam and Eve existed, then I am surely not one and I might be so bold as to say that nobody is one. Seriously? Is this the extent of your knowledge on biological and cosmic evolution? Normally I would think you were a troll or a Poe, but seeing your other posts you are indeed legitimate.
Poor human race.[/quote]
So, because you do not understand a concept that has not been drilled into you, I am the 'slow' one? I reposted my explaination of evolution/creation, and if you wish to have that conversation let's do it there.[quote]It might not be beyond your fairytale reasoning, but it is beyond scientific fact. For example, we know the universe to be 14.6 billion years old and not trillions.[/quote]again, billion, trillion bazillion, whatever number is currently in vogue for the age of the universe, it fits neatly with in the term "eternity." again if you wish to have this discussion further take it to the other thread. I want to discuss prayer here.
[quote]His best plan was to force continual suffering on the descendents of the first man and woman?
This also rules out free will. If he planned them to do these things and made them knowing they would act in that way, then he "programmed" them. That's all there is to it.[/quote]
It looks like maybe you catching on.[quote]No choice if there was a predestination for A&E and Satan.[/quote] Oh, oh there you go again! I think you got it.
[quote]Sorry, your just wrong. Even the ever vigilant Superman of anti-gullibility can be fooled.[/quote]You've moved the goal posts again. We weren't talking about people never being fooled. We were talking about people being easy to fool when they are looking for a reason to do something foolish.
[quote]If his plan screws up he isn't some kind of saint for taking responsibility. You have got to be kidding.[/quote]How does it screw up? Oh, you must still think we are working on the old catholic model that says we must be perfect all of the time and spend 2/3s of our time confessing for the 1/3 of our life we dare to live.
Look If God wanted us to live perfect lives in His will all of the time whether we wanted to or not there would not have been an oppertunity for sin planted in the middle of the Garden, nor would satan be allowed in to temp anyone. But he was and the tree was planed in the Garden before A&E were created.
The fall and handing this world over to man was all apart of the process of choosing we have. In order for their to be true choice we must have real options and unregulated consenquences. In order to have this we must live in a world/realm where the presents of God of the knoweledge of God's Glory is not imediatly known.
Otherwise 'choice' would be effected by the knoweledge of God's presents. for instance if we did something really stupid and God saved us from our stupid choices all of the time, then we would modify our lives to live with in His safty net. Like wise if the presents of God were known Or even if their were absolute undisputable verfiable proof of God (like you guys seem to want so badly) then no one would have a choice except to choose Christ.
Contary to popular belief God does not want everyone to goto Heaven. He only wants those who want to be with Him with all of their hearts, Minds, Spirits, and Strength. we know this because this is what He told us in the bible, and subsequently this is what it takes to find Him in this life now.
If it weren't this way, then every self perserving God hating person would seek redemption. Even if they did not really Love God.
With a life lived apart from the known glory of God we will know without doubt what we thought of God. For we will have lived a life dedicated to what we 'thought of God.'
so you see this life was no accident, or a fix for something out of God's control, but the plan from the beginning. Even the suffering we and our children endure, for it puts more distance between God haters and the God they Hate, and It brings those who Love God in closer. All boiling down to your final judgement. so when you are judged you will know where you stand before your sentence is given to you. and you will know for the rest of your existance that God's judgement to be Just.
[quote]Actually, yes you can. Here, I'll show you.
Lets take Spiderman for example. I hate Spiderman and think it is a crap comic, so it is a good target for an analogy.
The question derived from a Spiderman comic? How about, "Did Spiderman swing from webs?"
The answer is no, he didn't. There is no evidence to support this. But according to you, we should believe that he did in fact swing from webs because the comic says so.[/quote]
Moving the Goal post as a Logical fallacy:
Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after a goal has been scored, the goalposts are moved farther to discount the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
[quote]So God has a part in this fucked up world we live in?[/quote]Seriously? reread my second post It explains the difference in prayer and in wish making and God's role in all of it.
[quote]Logic dictates you to do so?
If God has a part in the world through prayer or anything, then he isn't blameless. Hell, he planned it this way. He created this world knowing full well of disease and cancer and war, so he isn't blameless either way.[/quote]
So?
