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Obama care
RE: Obama care
(August 6, 2012 at 10:30 pm)padraic Wrote: Perhaps some kind person will explain to me the relevance of the views and intentions of the founding fathers of the USA.

I'm going to try a little harder than my earlier answer, "it's an American thing".

American democracy was rather spontaneously created, as opposed to evolved like with British democracy.

In Britain, democracy came incrementally, starting with the first milestone, Magna Charta. That document did nothing for the common people but it did take away power from the king and therefore laid the foundation in a way that didn't exist elsewhere in Europe where "absolutism" eventually took root. Other milestones followed, power made its way from the king to the House of Lords to the House of Commons. British citizens might be able to educate me further but that's how I remember learning about it in school.

The British have no analog of our 4th of July where they either celebrate the birth of their nation or the birth of their democracy. There's no date that I know of where either could be attributed. The documents that do mark the milestones of their achievement of democracy aren't revered in the same way as our Constitution or Declaration of Independence.

Australia, New Zealand and other later colonies of Britain would also be the product of later stages of the evolution of democracy in Britain. Canada didn't gain independence until recently, so they would have also followed the British evolution of their democracy. They all have parliamentary systems that I'm guessing are very similar to those in the UK.

Side fact. you can see a frozen stage of the evolution British democracy in America's system of government. While this embarrassing part of our history is glossed over in our schools, our first attempt at democracy was a dismal failure. We spent several years being a functioning anarchy before hitting the "reset" button in 1787 with the establishment of our Constitution. When this happened, we largely copied the British system as it stood at that time and changed what we didn't like.

It's kind of like the rebellious teenager who storms out of the house and then finds life more complex than he first thought and then says "Um, how did mom do this again?" (in this case, Mother England)

The powers of our President are virtually identical to the powers of the King of England at that time, minus hereditary succession, the pomp and grandeur, and his role as supreme judge (this last part was spun out into a third branch, The Supreme Court). The President holds the sword (as commander of the armed forces) much like the King did at that time. Congress holds the purse (making laws and passing taxes) as Parliament did at that time.

John Adams even proposed that the American President should be addressed as "His Majesty". This was voted down and the more modest "Mr. President" was adopted. Regardless, while the pomp and grandeur may have been cast aside, the effective power of the office more-or-less remained. The olde struggles in England between King and Parliament are sometimes reflected in America between President and Congress today.

So, long story made short, American democracy was spontaneously born, even if based heavily on the British system (the nut doesn't fall far from the tree). As such, we have a heavy sentiment for the Constitution and the people that were involved in drafting it.

Hence, to the American mindset, The Founders = The Constitution = freedom.

Also hence why American theocrats try to do everything they can to make the Founders into the latter day Apostles of Christ.

Hope this helps.
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Messages In This Thread
Obama care - by Manowar - July 19, 2012 at 1:38 pm
RE: Obama care - by jackman - July 19, 2012 at 1:54 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 19, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 19, 2012 at 9:56 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 19, 2012 at 3:39 pm
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 19, 2012 at 4:47 pm
RE: Obama care - by Anomalocaris - July 19, 2012 at 5:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 19, 2012 at 5:12 pm
RE: Obama care - by Reforged - July 19, 2012 at 5:15 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 19, 2012 at 5:18 pm
RE: Obama care - by Reforged - July 19, 2012 at 5:20 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 19, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: Obama care - by Minimalist - July 19, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 19, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 19, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RE: Obama care - by Reforged - July 23, 2012 at 5:31 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 19, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 19, 2012 at 5:48 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 19, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 19, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: Obama care - by Paul the Human - July 19, 2012 at 6:11 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 19, 2012 at 6:31 pm
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 19, 2012 at 6:05 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 19, 2012 at 6:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 19, 2012 at 6:08 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 19, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 19, 2012 at 6:39 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 19, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Obama care - by jackman - July 19, 2012 at 6:56 pm
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 19, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 20, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 20, 2012 at 5:29 am
RE: Obama care - by Zen Badger - July 20, 2012 at 6:38 am
RE: Obama care - by KichigaiNeko - July 20, 2012 at 8:03 am
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 20, 2012 at 10:13 am
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 21, 2012 at 5:16 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 21, 2012 at 9:31 am
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 20, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 20, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 20, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 20, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 23, 2012 at 1:07 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 20, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 20, 2012 at 3:20 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 23, 2012 at 9:28 am
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - July 23, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 20, 2012 at 4:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 21, 2012 at 9:37 am
RE: Obama care - by C.W. Sims - July 21, 2012 at 9:47 am
RE: Obama care - by frankiej - July 21, 2012 at 9:56 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 21, 2012 at 10:22 am
RE: Obama care - by Erinome - July 21, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 23, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 23, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 23, 2012 at 12:48 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 23, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Obama care - by LastPoet - July 23, 2012 at 4:26 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 23, 2012 at 5:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 23, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 23, 2012 at 5:54 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 23, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 23, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 23, 2012 at 6:15 pm
RE: Obama care - by Tobie - July 23, 2012 at 6:07 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 23, 2012 at 6:12 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 23, 2012 at 8:05 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 24, 2012 at 8:15 am
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 24, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 24, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - July 24, 2012 at 10:52 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 24, 2012 at 2:30 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 24, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Obama care - by SleepingDemon - July 24, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 25, 2012 at 10:04 am
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 25, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 25, 2012 at 11:02 am
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 25, 2012 at 11:08 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 25, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 25, 2012 at 10:56 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 25, 2012 at 3:22 pm
RE: Obama care - by Annik - July 25, 2012 at 11:47 am
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - July 25, 2012 at 12:01 pm
RE: Obama care - by Reforged - July 25, 2012 at 12:16 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 25, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 25, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 25, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Re: RE: Obama care - by NoraBrimstone - July 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 25, 2012 at 9:05 pm
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 27, 2012 at 5:56 am
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 25, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Obama care - by Justtristo - July 26, 2012 at 9:19 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 26, 2012 at 10:17 am
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 27, 2012 at 8:44 am
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 28, 2012 at 1:11 am
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 27, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 27, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Re: Obama care - by NoraBrimstone - July 27, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 27, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 27, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 27, 2012 at 3:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2012 at 12:53 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 27, 2012 at 2:54 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 27, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 27, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: Obama care - by Tobie - July 27, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 27, 2012 at 4:25 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2012 at 4:28 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 27, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 27, 2012 at 6:41 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2012 at 5:30 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 27, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 28, 2012 at 6:28 am
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - July 28, 2012 at 10:12 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 28, 2012 at 10:28 am
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 28, 2012 at 11:17 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 28, 2012 at 1:01 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 28, 2012 at 7:45 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 28, 2012 at 8:23 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 28, 2012 at 9:57 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 28, 2012 at 10:17 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2012 at 2:59 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 6, 2012 at 9:42 am
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - August 6, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 6, 2012 at 10:33 am
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - August 6, 2012 at 12:49 pm
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - August 6, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 6, 2012 at 1:29 pm
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - August 6, 2012 at 2:18 pm
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - July 29, 2012 at 2:12 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 28, 2012 at 10:07 am
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 28, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 28, 2012 at 10:22 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 28, 2012 at 10:45 am
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 28, 2012 at 3:29 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 28, 2012 at 3:45 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 29, 2012 at 1:14 am
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 29, 2012 at 2:11 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 28, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 29, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Obama care - by Tobie - July 28, 2012 at 3:34 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 28, 2012 at 7:29 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 28, 2012 at 8:56 pm
RE: Obama care - by Tobie - July 29, 2012 at 3:57 am
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 29, 2012 at 10:29 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Obama care - by Tobie - July 29, 2012 at 12:32 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 29, 2012 at 5:18 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 29, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Obama care - by A Theist - July 29, 2012 at 12:40 pm
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm
RE: Obama care - by frankiej - July 29, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - July 29, 2012 at 12:10 pm
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 29, 2012 at 12:18 pm
RE: Obama care - by Anomalocaris - July 29, 2012 at 12:20 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 29, 2012 at 2:00 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - August 6, 2012 at 1:55 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 29, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm
RE: Obama care - by frankiej - July 29, 2012 at 3:06 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 29, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 29, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - July 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 29, 2012 at 8:41 pm
RE: Obama care - by Darth - July 30, 2012 at 4:28 am
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - July 30, 2012 at 6:42 am
RE: Obama care - by cratehorus - July 30, 2012 at 1:31 am
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - July 29, 2012 at 9:31 pm
RE: Obama care - by Manowar - July 31, 2012 at 11:14 am
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - July 31, 2012 at 11:33 am
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - July 31, 2012 at 3:38 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - August 6, 2012 at 1:19 pm
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - August 6, 2012 at 1:57 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 6, 2012 at 2:11 pm
RE: Obama care - by padraic - August 6, 2012 at 10:30 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 6, 2012 at 10:35 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - August 7, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 7, 2012 at 9:43 am
RE: Obama care - by Anomalocaris - August 7, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 7, 2012 at 1:18 pm
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - August 7, 2012 at 1:23 pm
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 7, 2012 at 1:45 pm
RE: Obama care - by 5thHorseman - August 7, 2012 at 1:59 pm
RE: Obama care - by Creed of Heresy - August 7, 2012 at 6:14 am
RE: Obama care - by Darth - August 7, 2012 at 8:10 am
RE: Obama care - by DeistPaladin - August 7, 2012 at 9:06 am
RE: Obama care - by downbeatplumb - August 7, 2012 at 1:29 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2012 at 9:17 am
RE: Obama care - by Minimalist - August 7, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: Obama care - by Minimalist - August 7, 2012 at 1:53 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - August 7, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jaysyn - August 7, 2012 at 3:17 pm
RE: Obama care - by Whateverist - August 7, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Obama care - by Anomalocaris - August 7, 2012 at 1:57 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: Obama care - by Minimalist - August 7, 2012 at 6:46 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - August 7, 2012 at 7:18 pm
RE: Obama care - by YahwehIsTheWay - August 7, 2012 at 8:12 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - August 7, 2012 at 9:22 pm
RE: Obama care - by padraic - August 7, 2012 at 7:36 pm
RE: Obama care - by Minimalist - August 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - August 14, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: Obama care - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Obama care - by Autumnlicious - August 15, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Obama care - by Jackalope - August 15, 2012 at 3:13 pm

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