Prayer?

[Skepsis]

No where in the bible are we promised this at any time. this is not free will. This is freedom of choice. Free will as the bible defines it is the ablity to sin. This they had, this we have.

Freedom of choice is simply free will to a lesser degree, but I'll call traditional free will "freedom of choice" if it helps you to distinguish.

Nope.

It's ok. You usually don't. Do you believe in a literal hell? Do you believe in any place of everlasting punishment for being "away from God"?

God is loving if you seek His love. God is Just if you seek The attonement offered.

Don't you see how this is oxymoronic? He created a plan where nobody has freedom of choice, then blames of for makes the choices that we were going to make per his plan. We don't have anything to atone for because, though it was us doing the wrong, it was him that manipulated, no, forced us to behave in that way.
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He will be neither to those who do not seek what He has offered. Both Love and Justice are conditional gifts.

Because your God is a prick. Good thing there isn't a shred of evidence for the existence of this supernatural creature.

It 'matters' from a state of ignorance (of God) and it did not matter when you knew of God and all He could offer if you remained faithful for 70 years or so?

Repeat that in an intelligible way. I am not the person that was asked, as I don't identify myself as a person who was approached with this proposal.

I am suggesting that the 'ethereal' version of yourself had duluded himself into thinking He was god's goto guy, and when you were seperated from God your true colors came out. So now when you go before God in judgement there can be no doubt in your mind who you are and where your heart truly stands.

>.>
There was no etherial version of myself. This claim is unfounded, and if you continue to make shit up there is no way I can defeat your argument.
Back it up, prove that it happened. Prove that it is possible. Then we will talk more.
I get tired of the Rogerian approach.

Bar=Son of, Heyseus=Jesus?

Gotcha.

If it's "God's plan" that I have to sin and have no choice in the matter and the very essence of what is "me" was created by him, then I am not at fault for sinning. He made me to sin. I am a sinning robot, if you will.

Yes!

You... are really creeping me out. Are you blind to the implications?

Now complete the line of logic... Since you were created a sinner and you have no choice but to sin then that means you are doomed to Hell...

Well, yeah. According to your dogma. Do you see the implications, though? for the "just" God that you have offered? Seriously?

Unless an attoning sacerfice has been made on your behalf! Now as a robot your programmer must have also programmed you to accept this attonement did He not?

Seeing as I neither believe in sin nor God alongside millions of others, no, he didn't.

moving the goal posts again???

As long as the true meaning of "free will" is transferred to "freedom of choice" in a way meaningful to the person I am talking to, then I am fine with the change.

AGAIN, Because Everything you know of God came from the bible. now that you have established God with the bible and formulated a question against his nature, with what you have learned from the bible. you refuse the bible (The Same Source You Used To Identify God, and Frame your Question) No longer a valid source. Do you need me to repost the defination, for that is a perfect example of moving the goal posts fallacy!

I am NOT formulating a question against the nature of your God. I'll make this very, very clear to you so it doesn't escape even you:
If the God of your bible purportedly acted on something physical, that is, committed to a course of action that had an effect on the physical world, then he just moved from "untestable bible's domain" to "testable, physical domain". Overlapping magisteria.
Therefore, it isn't beyond my authority to ask for evidence beyond that of the Bible to prove an extra-biblical event.

Actually, he created this culture. He planned it this way. So yes, he is very much "part of this culture".

Proof?

You have already said that this world turns according to his damned plan. So what, he planned everything except the shit we have gotten ourselves into these past 2000 years?

again pushing those who hate further away, and drawing those who love him closer in.

I don't understand you. How you could love a creature (for lack of a better word) that allows the death and suffering of so many on a daily basis when he could very easily solve it with little to no effort on his part.
For some reason it gives me the creeps.

Those who have endured suffering along side a loving God know it's value and do not shy from it when it comes back around. those who choose to go through suffering alone are embittered by it.

It is impossible to suffer through pain and tragedy with a loving God alongside.

Look sport, your appeal to logical fallacies with me is over. whether you understand what a fallacy is or not. If you want to chase your tail with your own home spun brand of thought/logic then feel free to do so. just know i am not going to spin around with you and help you catch it. If you will open you mind a little wider you might learn something, but closing it using logical fallacies will ensure that you will only think as you have been indoctrinated.

So I am taking that as a sign that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are trying to badmouth your way out of a situation that you know to be inescapable. I have shown you many times, in many ways, why you are wrong. What was your rebuttal? A link to Wikipedia amongst other sites. I know what a fallacy is, I am a 3 year going on four debate student. I am certainly not the best, but I am damn site away from being the ignorant shit you accuse me of being.
Get your facts together, read through my position 4-5 more times, then give it a go. Otherwise I will assume you to be far too incompetent to provide any sort of answer at all to my objection, and so will anyone else who has read any of these posts. I might be wrong, sure. But having my position excused despite many attempts to show that your objection is flawed followed by more links, I highly doubt I am.

How do you know of the God of the bible? where did they Learn? Now keep going to you get back to the bible.. Do you see your delima?

No, I don't understand. I am asking for verification of the existence of prophets of the word of the Christian God as far back as humanity has existed. I shouldn't be asking too much, you would only make the claim if you had evidence after all.

what is traditional prayer? Christ established 'Prayer' from the begining. Anything labled prayer that does not follow His model is not prayer not 'traditional.'

Take more time with your grammar in these posts. I'm having a hard time deciphering what it is you are trying to say. What is "His model is not prayer not 'traditional'"?
I'll clear this up real quick, though. By traditional, I meant what people normally think of when they think of a prayer. If you didn't recognize that people were "petitioning" God commonly you wouldn't have made this thread, I'd bet.

Death is one's birth into eternity!! Do you lement when a baby is born? The only reason Death is a 'bad thing' is when you know you will not be spending eternity with God.

The suffering AND the death. Death isn't bad by nature, I agree. But suffering is. Death commonly causes suffering as well... on top of it all, death is generally not an all too pleasant experience.

No He does every single one! It's what you think prayer is, isn't a prayer at all. To me is sounds like wish making.

If the answer comes as a "no" he didn't answer. "No" and "No answer" are the same.
Your version of prayer is completely indistinguishable from talking to yourself. As a matter of fact, it is talking to yourself.

If I was standing still and someone asked me to stand still, would I be responding in any meaningful way if my intentions from the start were to remain standing still?

What makes 'standing still' in a proper prayer, an answered prayer is when 'standing still' becomes a great benfit for you.

That made absolutely no sense. Try again.