Prayer?

[Drich]

It's ok. You usually don't. Do you believe in a literal hell? Do you believe in any place of everlasting punishment for being "away from God"?

Here is all i know of Hell:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7474493/ starts at post 6.

Don't you see how this is oxymoronic? He created a plan where nobody has freedom of choice,

So?

then blames of for makes the choices that we were going to make per his plan.

This is your problem, the sin choices we make ARE the Plan, along with attonement for said sins.

We don't have anything to atone for because, though it was us doing the wrong, it was him that manipulated, no, forced us to behave in that way.

The other 1/2 of your problem.. Sin seperates us from God. If you want to return then you must seperate yourself from sin, per the attonement offered by Christ.

Because your God is a prick.

To the the proud, yes.

Good thing there isn't a shred of evidence for the existence of this supernatural creature.

If there was.. you would have lost the only choice you truly had in this life. That is why He hides Himself from unbelievers.

Repeat that in an intelligible way. I am not the person that was asked, as I don't identify myself as a person who was approached with this proposal.

What do you think it is that I have been doing for the past two nights?

There was no etherial version of myself. This claim is unfounded, and if you continue to make shit up there is no way I can defeat your argument.

You wanted to play what ifs... So i played. You are right in that you have no way of know what happened before your born, but the judgement and the reason for this life remains the same. that half of my "what if" is scripturally founded.

Back it up, prove that it happened. Prove that it is possible. Then we will talk more.
I get tired of the Rogerian approach.

We played because you brought up your own pre birth consciencousness. i simply asked how were you so sure if you were never asked to be born.

Gotcha.

I still don't get it.

Well, yeah. According to your dogma. Do you see the implications, though? for the "just" God that you have offered? Seriously?
Seeing as I neither believe in sin nor God alongside millions of others, no, he didn't.

Gotcha! If God didn't program you to accept the attonement offered, then the 'implications' you alluded to are meaningless. Meaning we are free to accept or refuse as we see fit. (per your own admission)

I am NOT formulating a question against the nature of your God. I'll make this very, very clear to you so it doesn't escape even you:
If the God of your bible purportedly acted on something physical, that is, committed to a course of action that had an effect on the physical world, then he just moved from "untestable bible's domain" to "testable, physical domain". Overlapping magisteria.
Therefore, it isn't beyond my authority to ask for evidence beyond that of the Bible to prove an extra-biblical event.

NOT if it is the same bible who recorded the very event being questioned. It puts it well with in the same domain, in which God and the events surrounding His actions concerning His expressed will (pre law) have been established in the first place. you take away the bible to provide you an answer, you take away your right to question God. For without it you can not question Him nor any of his actions. (pre or post Law)

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You have already said that this world turns according to his damned plan. So what, he planned everything except the shit we have gotten ourselves into these past 2000 years?

The 'plan' was to put us in an enviorment free from the direct knoweledge of Him allowing us to live as our hearts would demand. Then offer attonement to anyone who earnestly sought after it. That's it. the rest is a direct consenquence of our (limited) choices in life.

I don't understand you. How you could love a creature (for lack of a better word) that allows the death and suffering of so many on a daily basis when he could very easily solve it with little to no effort on his part.
For some reason it gives me the creeps.

Because I know Death not to be the 'worst' thing that could happen to someone. that pain and suffering makes us who we are. that living a life of indulgences litterally Spoils (makes rotten) one very soul. I love God because He has carfully and thoughtfully carried me through many hardships and trials. Pain and suffering has given me perspective and wisdom beyond my station. I have these things because i asked for them, and i know none of this would have been possiable before my 'trials.' i thank god for what He has given me (suffering/pain)

It is impossible to suffer through pain and tragedy with a loving God alongside.

Have you tried it?

I'll clear this up real quick, though. By traditional, I meant what people normally think of when they think of a prayer. If you didn't recognize that people were "petitioning" God commonly you wouldn't have made this thread, I'd bet.

As i said i made this thread because many of you have lost faith for unanswered prayers, and i wanted to establish what prayer actually was. The fact that you can read this entire thread and still call what amounts to a formal wishing cermony a 'traditional prayer' puts a doubt in my mind as to your general comperhensive skills. that is why i needed clarity to what you were actually refering to.

The suffering AND the death. Death isn't bad by nature, I agree. But suffering is.

why? when we excersize our bodies past their confortable limits we suffer do we not? What is the result? A stronger body bigger mussles a stronger physical being. When we suffer spiritually we are also growing stronger spiritually. This is what is needed in order to grow in our relationship with God.

Death commonly causes suffering as well... on top of it all, death is generally not an all too pleasant experience.

i contend for the dead it matters very little.

If the answer comes as a "no" he didn't answer. "No" and "No answer" are the same.
Your version of prayer is completely indistinguishable from talking to yourself. As a matter of fact, it is talking to yourself.

That made absolutely no sense. Try again.

indeed care to rephrase?