What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?

[spockrates]

@spockrates

I have looked on that web and it doesn't find it. I have definitely read it in the new version. Jesus' words are printed in red. It was one I borrowed so I haven't got a copy to look at.

OK. From what I understand, the New Testament describes him as being born of a Jewish mother and in Bethlehem (just outside of Jerusalem). The Bible does indicate that his parents took him to live in Egypt for a time, so I can see why someone would accuse him of being gentile, rather than Jewish. Nazareth, where he grew up after returning from Egypt was also known as a place where Jewish and non-Jewish people intermarried. As one of Jesus' disciples put it before he met him:

“Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?”

(John 1:46)


Jesus was sometimes accused of being a bastard, since Joseph was not his biological father, so the rumor might have started due to that. There are writings of ancient Jewish critics of Christ regarding this accusation that his mother became pregnant prior to marriage. Do you think what you read was something Jewish and extra-biblical?

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As I understand, the separation was not one of essence, but one of relationship. God being (so to speak) one what in three whos, the Son had never not been in communion with the Father until that point in time. It's a kind of suffering one who is one person might not be able to comprehend. There is also some biblical evidence that the past and the future are experienced eternally as the present for God, and that God remains unchanged by the events of time. If this is the case, there might be some sense in which the suffering of God never ends and is, like God forever.

You are correct about them believing that the past/future is the present for God. That sort of theology was also common with Dionysus and Attis.

I thought Dionysus was the drunken demigod of wine, not time!

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As I understand, the separation was not one of essence, but one of relationship. God being (so to speak) one what in three whos, the Son had never not been in communion with the Father until that point in time. It's a kind of suffering one who is one person might not be able to comprehend. There is also some biblical evidence that the past and the future are experienced eternally as the present for God, and that God remains unchanged by the events of time. If this is the case, there might be some sense in which the suffering of God never ends and is, like God forever.

OK. So the father part of the trinity is not speaking to the son part for 30 years and thats the torment. So why did Jesus have to be sacrificed by crucifiction ?

Regards

Grimesy

Actually, the separation is said to have occurred in time only while Jesus suffered crucifixion. Hence, passages speaking of God the Father forsaking him for our sakes, and Jesus' words on cried out prior to death:

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

(Mark 15:34)

Jesus could have been sacrificed any way. That Jesus was sacrificed by crucifixion was predicted by Old Testament prophets. If he was executed some other way, the Old Testament prophets (such as Isiah) would be proven to be false prophets (according to the standard set by Moses in Deuteronomy 18, where he writes that only true prophets of God accurately predict the future).

The main method of execution prior to the Roman occupation was stoning. There were only short periods in ancient Jewish history when this form of execution was prevalent.

In my opinion, crucifixion was necessary to show us that God the Father knew exactly how the Messiah would die, even thousands of years prior to his death. It's historical evidence--like writing history centuries before it happens.

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You are correct about them believing that the past/future is the present for God. That sort of theology was also common with Dionysus and Attis.

So suffering is but a permanent unavoidable state for god. Nice of him to make a virtue out of necessity and try to compel us to thank him for that which he neither effected nor could have avoided.

Well, I suppose he could have thrown up his hands and cried, "To hell with y'all!"

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Um....."biblical evidence"..really Spock?

Predicting the future with 100% accuracy, 100% of the time. Can any fairy tale accomplish that? Personally, I've found it compelling.

:p