What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made?

[spockrates]

@ spockrates, all very well but the universe is not a canopy. Each star will eventually die, explode and then there will be nothing. Never again will there be life in the universe but 'we' are talking about ten billion years from now

True, the universe is not, but I'd say the atmosphere of earth is. Wouldn't you?

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Could it be a figure of speech? A manual for the United States Navy speaks of sunrise and sunset, but you and I know that the sun does not rise nor set. Four corners of the earth might be a way of saying the whole earth. Figures of speech are common in the Bible, and Jesus was even fond of using them.

How do you determine what is supposed to be a figure of speech and what is not? Couldn't the whole "sin" bit be a figure of speech? How about god, couldn't god be a figure of speech? Couldn't any part of the narrative be a figure of speech (or none at all)? You do talk about parts of this narrative often as though they were literal, but since you've decided to cast the shadow of doubt over whether or not any given passage is literal, that would have vast implications wouldn't it?

One of my favorite examples, the lord stopping the sun in the sky...well, thats one hell of a miracle. The sun stopping bit not so much, because the sun wouldn't be what stopped, and the earth stopping still not so much, but all of the things that would happen to this rock if it did come to a sudden screeching halt - not happening-. Its a long litany of unconsidered miracles (which didn't sound off the wall to those who wrote it because they had no clue).

-Or-

That entire part of the narrative..that miracle of god...was just a figure of speech.

There are more...

Not sure of what event you are speaking. Let me know if you find it and have the book and chapter.

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The worst thing to me is how the muslims so believe that Mohamed split the moon in half..as if. There is a phenomenal that uniquely there are ice crystals in the universe, trillions of them; they 'make' a mirror so that when there's a half moon it looks like the mirror image makes two half moons when in fact, it is one half moon refected in the mirror, thus seeming like two half moons in the sky. Muslims still believe to this day that Mohamed split the moon!! Pathetic

Mormon founder Joseph Smith has old Mo beat--I hear he said the moon was made of blue cheese!

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The Hebrew for the word translated as circle in this passage can also be translated as sphere, I've heard

Really, Spock?

<< Isaiah 40:22 >>

New International Version (©1984)
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

New Living Translation (©2007)
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:

American King James Version
It is he that sits on the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:

American Standard Version
It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

Darby Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

English Revised Version
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Webster's Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

World English Bible
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;

Young's Literal Translation
He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.

You really have to stop listening to G-C who tries to pull this shit about "faulty translations" all the time and ends up having it shoved back up his ass in just this manner. These are YOUR people translating YOUR fucking bible. You want to piss and moan, tell them. Not us.

We don't give a flying fuck.

Your mouth says you don't care, but the amount of time spent looking up verses suggests otherwise! I love you too, man!



I've also taken the time to show I care. Check out definition 16:

circle[ sur-kuh l ]
noun
1. a closed plane curve consisting of all points at a given distance from a point within it called the center. Equation: x2 + y2 = r2.
2. the portion of a plane bounded by such a curve.
3. any circular or ringlike object, formation, or arrangement: a circle of dancers.

4. a ring, circlet, or crown.
5. the ring of a circus.
6. a section of seats in a theater: dress circle.
7. the area within which something acts, exerts influence, etc.; realm; sphere: A politician has a wide circle of influence.
8. a series ending where it began, especially when perpetually repeated; cycle: the circle of the year.
9. an argument ostensibly proving a conclusion but actually assuming the conclusion or its equivalent as a premise; vicious circle.
10. a complete series forming a connected whole; cycle: the circle of the sciences.
11. a number of persons bound by a common tie; coterie: a literary circle; a family circle.
12. an administrative division, especially of a province.
13. a parallel of latitude.
14. meridian circle.
15. a glass or metal disk mounted concentrically with the spindle of a theodolite or level and graduated so that the angle at which the alidade is set may be read.
16. a sphere or orb: the circle of the earth.
17. a ring of light in the sky; halo.

http://m.dictionary.com/definition/circl...kId=ibc5yn

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Well, I suppose he could have thrown up his hands and cried, "To hell with y'all!"

No, he couldn't have, according to you.

Is love possible apart from the freedom to choose to not love?