RE: Question to Christians re humility
October 6, 2012 at 3:22 pm
(This post was last modified: October 6, 2012 at 3:24 pm by Darkstar.)
(October 6, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Undeceived Wrote: It is arrogance in the sense of epistemology. Atheists have faith in a doctrine called Empiricism--that whatever they don't perceive directly with their senses does not exist, end of discussion.
Everyone has faith in anything they believe. We have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, but it would be unreasonable to think otherwise. It is the amount of faith that matters. When you have more faith than genuine evidence, it is reasonable for someone to doubt the validity of your claim.
Undecieved Wrote:I confess it's not easy to believe with secondhand evidence and reason, but how else are we to know about the non-natural realm?
What is this non-natural realm of which you speak? You assume that it exists whilst simultaneously admitting that it cannot be observed, nor can evidence of its existence be found. Explain again why the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist.
Undecieved Wrote:Atheists claim they know God doesn't exist.
Not all atheists. Knowing something is different from absolute knowledge. Absolute knowledge is only attainable in mathematics. There could be a part of the universe where the laes of physics are suspended. We don't know absolutely that this is untrue, but we have no reason to assume that it is true.
Undecieved Wrote:Agnostics claim they know they can't know whether God exists.
Agnosticism and gnosticism are not the same as atheism and theism. You can be an agnostic atheist, someone who doesn't believe that god exists, but isn't personally certain, or a gnotic theist, someone who is personally certain that a god exists. A pure agnostic may take no stance at all, but agnosticism can be applied to ateism and theism.
Undecieved Wrote:Christians believe that, if there, God would reach through the barrier of nature to contact them.
And yet he doesn't...
Undecieved Wrote:Part of this is accomplished through the Bible, part through the Holy Spirit, and additionally via introspection (by which the created can learn about the image of their creator).
1. No evidence that the bible was any more divinely inspired than the koran.
2. A vague emotional experience is proof of god. A bit credulous, are we?
3.Basically the same as #2. We look inside ourselves and fill a hole with an imaginary god, so we will feel better. I don't hear many theists saying they wish god didn't exist, but some atheists say they wish he did.
Undecieved Wrote:You demand physical proof of a non-physical being.
How do you know he is non-physical? Is that how you defined him? How would we know he was non-physical unless we already assumed that he existed and conformed to our understanding of him? I see this as circular reasoning.
Undecieved Wrote:If your starting point is rooted in naturalism, there's nothing I can do to convince you.
Uh...yeah. How can we just take your word for it that a supernatural being that we can't ever find evidence for exists, just because?
Undecieved Wrote:atheists like to remain closed until pried open. Christians atheists remain open until slammed shut. Don't wait to be convinced by the most undeniable evidence in the universe. Open your eyes and... let yourself be vulnerable. My God is the God of the heart, and he can't meet you until you meet Him. suspend reason and science.
Fixed. You know, it requires a good suspension of disbelief to enjoy a work of fiction, so...
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.