RE: God does not follow the first principle of morality. Why not?
October 8, 2012 at 3:14 pm
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2012 at 3:19 pm by genkaus.)
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: 'Morality' is an ever changing standard from person to person, culture to culture and generation to generation. So the the question should be 'who's morality' are you suggesting God follow and why?
The secular morality - because it gives everyone the independence to follow his own morality.
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: Why does this 'morality' trump all others?
Because it allows other moralities to exist and doesn't call for their eradication.
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: What authority is your answer based on?
Logic and reason.
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: If you had an oppertunity to Kill Adolph Hilter, Joesph Stallin, Hirohito/Emperor Shōwa, Mao Zedong, Kim Il sung as a Child knowing full well what they would accomplish as an adult, would you be obligated to kill them? Or would you wait till after these three men collibrated and kill 1/3 of the worlds population at the time they lived? would you sacerfice the lives of hundreds of millions for the sake of the philosphy you live by, or would you do something about it? what would your responsiablity be if you absolutly 100% knew that their was an entire race of people bent on the destruction of the world?
There would be no obligation on my part to act either way even if I did know the end result - after all, I have not undertaken the responsibility
of the well-being of the entire human race. Your god on the other hand....
What you fail to understand is that I do not 'own' any of those lives. They are not mine to take or sacrifice - they belong to the people who live them. Sacrificing even a single person for the sake of my philosophy would go against my philosophy - thus I cannot sacrifice them whoever they may be or whatever they may do. Your god, apparently, fails to understand this simple concept.
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: God is in a position to Judge our actions before we commit them. In the case of those races/clans He decided to wipe out He did so in order to perserve His chosen people. He knew that even if the imediate generation posed no threat, that one generation down the pike would. So in order to perserve His people and subsequently inorder to perserve the linage of Christ and salvation for the rest of the world some people (even children) had to die.
Are you saying that your god didn't have the capacity to eliminate the future generation if and when they posed the threat? Your god sounds more like one of the demons of mythology or one of those evil kings - you know, the ones who here a prophecy that some first born would defeat them so they go on to kill every available first borns.
(October 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Drich Wrote: Because we know not "all people are basically good." That all are intrinsically sinful and whether we die as a Child or as an old man we all still owe a death to the life we have been given, and it is up to our sovern God to tell us when our life is forefit.
And this is why the very basis of Christianity in corrupt and evil.
"Your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice. It demands, as his first proof of virtue, that he accept his own depravity without proof. It demands that he start, not with a standard of value, but with a standard of evil, which is himself, by means of which he is then to define the good: the good is that which he is not.
It does not matter who then becomes the profiteer on his renounced glory and tormented soul, a mystic God with some incomprehensible design or any passer-by whose rotting sores are held as some inexplicable claim upon him—it does not matter, the good is not for him to understand, his duty is to crawl through years of penance, atoning for the guilt of his existence to any stray collector of unintelligible debts, his only concept of a value is a zero: the good is that which is non-man."
- Ayn Rand. I disagree with her on quite a few things. But here, she has you spot on.
(October 6, 2012 at 3:24 pm)Drich Wrote: God's 'morality' is known as Righteousness and you are right it does not change. That is because it is an absolute standard in which none of us can (nor is expected) to live up to.
Then it is his righteousness itself that is corrupt.
(October 6, 2012 at 3:24 pm)Drich Wrote: By what standard? Yours?who are you to judge God? Your answer:_________________ my response:
By the standard of rationality.
(October 6, 2012 at 10:15 pm)Drich Wrote: Again you have confused morality with God's law/Expressed Will. For I am trying (when I vote) to force my 'morality or my self righteousness onto you.
God's Will can Never be acheaved that is why Christ died.
Nope. Unless his 'expressed will' is not a reflection of his morality.