Which Comes First?

[Eilonnwy]

I'ld bet good money everything you believe in doesn't have scientific data, just experience or reason or taking things as they appear.

And you'd be wrong. I base my entire life on accepting the truths of science, believing things when there's testable and reliable evidence to back it up. Do I get wrong at times? Of course, but I do the best I can to be appropriately skeptical.

I don't think you can simple call it a fallacy when it could actually be the case that it is true. Is it not circular reasoning to say I dont believe it because its not true which is why I dont believe it. Your saying it is wrong because it is what it is.

I can because it is.

It's called a fallacy because the logic is faulty. I did not assert circular reasoning, I asserted Fr0d0 was making the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Even if we say that fr0d0's proposition is true (which I do not accept for an instant) it's still based on a fallacy and not demonstrably convincing. For example, the popularity fallacy, most people believe the world is round. And it is. However to assert the world is round because most people believe it is, does not actually make it true. It's true because science says so. Not long ago the population believed it was flat.

It may be the case that some people when they attempt to pray, are not being genuine and are not getting answers. I totally accept that in that case his assertion might be true, but you're still making a fallacy. He's saying that everyone who prays and doesn't get an answer is not a true believer. That is absurd. Regardless, fr0d0 makes assertions that we didn't really believe when we were Christians which is fallacious because a) fr0d0 can't read minds and b) he's making a no true Scotsman fallacy.