[quote='FallentoReason' pid='358156' dateline='1351960656']
It's from Jesus himself. Sermon on the Mount; the Lord's Prayer:
"...your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."
This is not a command that you go out and take upon yourself to do. "Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" Is a prayer that the man's reign be over, and that God usher in the end of this age. In otherwords it is a prayer that we ask that the events in revelation take place. On a smaller more personal scale It's also a prayer to the faithful to give up our own will, (Like for instance to insist that we be given one spiritual gift over another.)
[quote]I'm finding this mentality sickening by the minute. I completely gave myself over to God so that he could reach out to people.[/quote]No, by your own admission you went to Thailand to 'Heal' people. If you went for God then you would have been satasified cleaning toilets and found the whole trip (cleaning toilets or whatever task you were given) an oppertunity to serve God. For it is the act of serving that is important, and not how you are serving that legitmizes your efforts.
[quote]To propose that I didn't fill this requirement or I got to Thailand the wrong way (what, was I supposed to row over there instead of "buy" my way to helping them?) and that's why God did nothing is just sickening. [/quote]It would be sickening to me as well if I found out all my best efforts were meant to obtain or 'buy' a very specific spiritual gift.
[quote]What utter rubbish. You've set up a strawman. Why the heck would I want to "buy" a spiritual gift? [/quote]Why would you want to 'buy' the gift of healing? Maybe because you honestly wanted to help people in thialand, (Which btw is what I honestly think) Maybe you wanted to cash in on this gift like a Benny Hinn, or maybe you wanted to be held in high regaurd amongest all your peers. Maybe you did this to impress a girl at church. Who knows for sure. that is between you and God. That said the facts remain. You put fourth a 'huge effort' to pay your way to this country so that God could only use you to Heal the sick and dying. you went or rather you PAID your way to an area that had a very specific need that only a very specific Gift could resolve (in your mind) and you assumed that God would use you to fill the need you saw.
What if God needed you too rid yourself of this toxic faith in order to use you first? Would giving you the gift you sought after while in this toxic faith state of mind help you rid yourself of this faith, or would it be throwing gasoline on a fire? You needed to hit bottom with what you believed, and God allowed you to do just that. Causeing you to perge the whole of your religious understanding, so you could have the oppertunity to build something that resembles the biblical Christianity we are all to have. If you are not faithful to the purge of your old faith, and seek out God beyond what you once knew of Him, then how could you possiable be entrusted with a gift such as healing?
[quote]Your bloody book says we've been given the authority to witness via signs such as healing. [/quote] If you want to see healing goto a hospitial or to a recovery ward, or to a nursing home in your community. You do not need to go 1/2 way around the world to see that.
[quote] I saw some severe diseases over there (including a man at the hospital who was minutes from death) and God did NOTHING. [/quote]God brought that man into eternity...
Maybe that is another reason why you have not been given the gift you seek. You think that death is a punishment or the end of something. Death is a blessing to all who Love God. This life is the curse. The only reasons one needs to be healed is to bring glory to God or if the person being healed is not finished with what God has tasked Him to do in this life. As 'we' do not know, who has what to do, that leaves giving glory to God. If you do not live a life giving glory to God with out this gift, receiving this gift will only drive you deeper into yourself. (Meaning God will not receive the Glory due to Him by giving you this gift.)
[quote]In other words, the "gift" you get given is indistinguishable from coincidences occuring by anything other than divine means.[/quote]Absolutly not. Our spirituaql gifts have been listed by Paul in 1 cor 12. Again the Smallest amount of Spiritual discernment would have shown you this. If you do not have the basic Spiritual fruit, than How could you ever hope to be entrusted with such an awesome gift?
[quote] This explains why NO ONE healed during that trip, including our heavyweight miracle healer who claims to heal at our local hospital every weekend (as opposed to going to church on a Sunday. Yeah, he's that committed).[/quote]
Actually no. If you depended on a complete flush of the toxic faith you were apart of, and even if God used this heavy hitter before, but you need to see a complete fail inorder for you to follow the path He has for you, then He would have delivered you to see that fail.
[quote]Out of a church edging on 1000 people, not one person has the gift of healing. I highly HIGHLY doubt that that is probable. [/quote]
Miraciolus healing is got to be one of the rarest gifts given to people. out of the 10's of thousands of Christians I have met in my life time I only have ever met one person with this gift. I was Healed twice by her. Once from severe asthma attacks I suffered since childhood,(to walking away never having to use or take anything ever again,) and the second time she prayed over me I was diagnosised with HIV. I have know this person to pray over others and sometimes they walked away healed and other times they did not. it all depended on the person being healed. Those who had service to God still to give were healed and those who were at the end were called home. It is from this person that I learned that. It is not upto the vessal to determine who is Healed but it is upto God.
[quote]The Muslim will also tell me of their experiences with god. Anecdotal evidence is inconclusive because every religion will tell you the same thing.[/quote]You've never talked with muslims, for you are confusing the things the God of the bible does and has promised with what Allah does and has promised. Yours is an invalid arguement because a muslim would not have claimed to have the power of healing, for the God he serves does not offer such gifts.
All of that said, If you earnestly Ask for this Gift and God slated you to receive this gift, but first had to flush you of all of your toxic beliefs, would you still want this gift? Or do you/did you only want this gift on your terms? In your church, on demand or in thialand? Would you want this gift if it seperated you from everyone you knew and everything you thought you knew of God? What are you willing to give to use this gift as God wants it to be used?
It's from Jesus himself. Sermon on the Mount; the Lord's Prayer:
"...your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."
This is not a command that you go out and take upon yourself to do. "Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" Is a prayer that the man's reign be over, and that God usher in the end of this age. In otherwords it is a prayer that we ask that the events in revelation take place. On a smaller more personal scale It's also a prayer to the faithful to give up our own will, (Like for instance to insist that we be given one spiritual gift over another.)
[quote]I'm finding this mentality sickening by the minute. I completely gave myself over to God so that he could reach out to people.[/quote]No, by your own admission you went to Thailand to 'Heal' people. If you went for God then you would have been satasified cleaning toilets and found the whole trip (cleaning toilets or whatever task you were given) an oppertunity to serve God. For it is the act of serving that is important, and not how you are serving that legitmizes your efforts.
[quote]To propose that I didn't fill this requirement or I got to Thailand the wrong way (what, was I supposed to row over there instead of "buy" my way to helping them?) and that's why God did nothing is just sickening. [/quote]It would be sickening to me as well if I found out all my best efforts were meant to obtain or 'buy' a very specific spiritual gift.
[quote]What utter rubbish. You've set up a strawman. Why the heck would I want to "buy" a spiritual gift? [/quote]Why would you want to 'buy' the gift of healing? Maybe because you honestly wanted to help people in thialand, (Which btw is what I honestly think) Maybe you wanted to cash in on this gift like a Benny Hinn, or maybe you wanted to be held in high regaurd amongest all your peers. Maybe you did this to impress a girl at church. Who knows for sure. that is between you and God. That said the facts remain. You put fourth a 'huge effort' to pay your way to this country so that God could only use you to Heal the sick and dying. you went or rather you PAID your way to an area that had a very specific need that only a very specific Gift could resolve (in your mind) and you assumed that God would use you to fill the need you saw.
What if God needed you too rid yourself of this toxic faith in order to use you first? Would giving you the gift you sought after while in this toxic faith state of mind help you rid yourself of this faith, or would it be throwing gasoline on a fire? You needed to hit bottom with what you believed, and God allowed you to do just that. Causeing you to perge the whole of your religious understanding, so you could have the oppertunity to build something that resembles the biblical Christianity we are all to have. If you are not faithful to the purge of your old faith, and seek out God beyond what you once knew of Him, then how could you possiable be entrusted with a gift such as healing?
[quote]Your bloody book says we've been given the authority to witness via signs such as healing. [/quote] If you want to see healing goto a hospitial or to a recovery ward, or to a nursing home in your community. You do not need to go 1/2 way around the world to see that.
[quote] I saw some severe diseases over there (including a man at the hospital who was minutes from death) and God did NOTHING. [/quote]God brought that man into eternity...
Maybe that is another reason why you have not been given the gift you seek. You think that death is a punishment or the end of something. Death is a blessing to all who Love God. This life is the curse. The only reasons one needs to be healed is to bring glory to God or if the person being healed is not finished with what God has tasked Him to do in this life. As 'we' do not know, who has what to do, that leaves giving glory to God. If you do not live a life giving glory to God with out this gift, receiving this gift will only drive you deeper into yourself. (Meaning God will not receive the Glory due to Him by giving you this gift.)
[quote]In other words, the "gift" you get given is indistinguishable from coincidences occuring by anything other than divine means.[/quote]Absolutly not. Our spirituaql gifts have been listed by Paul in 1 cor 12. Again the Smallest amount of Spiritual discernment would have shown you this. If you do not have the basic Spiritual fruit, than How could you ever hope to be entrusted with such an awesome gift?
[quote] This explains why NO ONE healed during that trip, including our heavyweight miracle healer who claims to heal at our local hospital every weekend (as opposed to going to church on a Sunday. Yeah, he's that committed).[/quote]
Actually no. If you depended on a complete flush of the toxic faith you were apart of, and even if God used this heavy hitter before, but you need to see a complete fail inorder for you to follow the path He has for you, then He would have delivered you to see that fail.
[quote]Out of a church edging on 1000 people, not one person has the gift of healing. I highly HIGHLY doubt that that is probable. [/quote]
Miraciolus healing is got to be one of the rarest gifts given to people. out of the 10's of thousands of Christians I have met in my life time I only have ever met one person with this gift. I was Healed twice by her. Once from severe asthma attacks I suffered since childhood,(to walking away never having to use or take anything ever again,) and the second time she prayed over me I was diagnosised with HIV. I have know this person to pray over others and sometimes they walked away healed and other times they did not. it all depended on the person being healed. Those who had service to God still to give were healed and those who were at the end were called home. It is from this person that I learned that. It is not upto the vessal to determine who is Healed but it is upto God.
[quote]The Muslim will also tell me of their experiences with god. Anecdotal evidence is inconclusive because every religion will tell you the same thing.[/quote]You've never talked with muslims, for you are confusing the things the God of the bible does and has promised with what Allah does and has promised. Yours is an invalid arguement because a muslim would not have claimed to have the power of healing, for the God he serves does not offer such gifts.
All of that said, If you earnestly Ask for this Gift and God slated you to receive this gift, but first had to flush you of all of your toxic beliefs, would you still want this gift? Or do you/did you only want this gift on your terms? In your church, on demand or in thialand? Would you want this gift if it seperated you from everyone you knew and everything you thought you knew of God? What are you willing to give to use this gift as God wants it to be used?
