(November 8, 2012 at 9:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote:(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Big Bang explains nothing about the causally antecedent conditions prior to Big Bang. Science stops cold at the singularity boundary, but reason does not.
This is gibberish. The Big Bang says nothing about conditions prior to the Big Bang - and you're surprised at that? Are you aware that a calendar for, say, 2012 says nothing about the year 1911? Or that a map of Tokyo doesn't even mention the London Underground? Yet we don't throw away calendars and maps.
(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Material, time and space began to exist
With you so far.
(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Material, time and space cannot be it's own cause.
Bzzzzt! Why not? "Cannot" is a very strong word. Care to back it up with something other than opinion?
(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: The fact that it BEGAN means it cannot self-exist (self-existence is rationally necessary)
Yes, we all know the Kalam Cosmological Argument. Or the Kalam Total Horseshit, to give it its proper name. Again, why not?
(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Where is that causal agency?
Let me guess: it's God, isn't it? I just bet you're gonna say God...
(November 8, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Any sufficient causal agency must have the necessary attributes of being Timeless, spaceless and immaterial - and capacity to create a contingent Universe. God fits the criteria perfectly. Materialism precludes that which is necessary for any sufficient causal agency.
The prophet strikes again! Ok, what do those buzzwords - timeless, spaceless, immaterial (actually I know that one) - even mean? If an entity is timeless, in the strictest definition of the word, there is no time within which it can operate. Hence, it is as powerless as any god; so you might actually be onto something.
Spaceless? Lacking in space, or outside space? If the former, it cannot exist in a Universe like ours. If the latter, it can have no influence in a Universe like ours. Either way, even if it does exist in reality, we can discard it simply because it can have no power. Especially if it's immaterial as well. It must really suck balls to be a god.
Capacity to create a contingent Universe? We got ourselves a tautology! The only entity capable of building a contingent Universe is one with the capacity to build contingent Universes. Congratulations, you might just have made William Lane "Two Citations" Craig look rational - and that takes some doing.
Why not? Because something cannot exist prior to it's own existence in order to cause itself into existence. This is patently obvious.
Now YOU EXPLAIN WHY SELF-CAUSATION IS POSSIBLE?
Timeless, spaceless and immaterial: Having no dimensionality of time, space or material. Pretending you can't understand is not an argument.