RE: Big Bang Theory
November 9, 2012 at 5:50 pm
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2012 at 6:00 pm by Ben Davis.)
(November 9, 2012 at 12:08 pm)Truth Matters Wrote: Then actually debunk me - don't just claim it happened somewhere with some link. Tell me exactly where I am wrong on the science? Try to debunk my arguments and watch how badly things end for you. I guarantee it.No problem. Regarding your claim that the universe has a beginning, you refer to WLC's induction from the 'Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin’s Past-Finite Universe' claim. That claim is false. No scientist has ever reputably claimed that 'the universe definitely has a beginning' without caveats which make the claim purposeless. In fact, even Vilenkin has been quoted as saying (with Borde & Guth's approval):
Quote:...if someone asks me whether or not the theorem I proved with Borde and Guth implies that the universe had a beginning, I would say that the short answer is “yes”. If you are willing to get into subtleties, then the answer is “No, but…” So, there are ways to get around having a beginning, but then you are forced to have something nearly as special as a beginning.
The most obvious of the 'subtleties' is that their models can only be applied to the universe in its current state (i.e. expanding etc.) and can make no inference about the possible previous states of the universe due to a lack of data. When their models make reference to the universe, their definition is 'the current, expanding universe from which we can take data'. The best than can be said in favour of your argument using the BGV models is 'the universe may have had a beginning but there's no way to be sure'. This is not the same as saying 'the universe definitely had a beginning'. Since science can't yet tell us that the term 'the universe' must necessarily refer to it's current state, we don't even know if the term 'beginning' makes sense in reference to it.
Sum ergo sum