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Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist.
(December 8, 2012 at 5:40 am)median Wrote: Hello, I am new to Atheist Forums and this is my first (REAL) post here. So here goes:



Welcome Welcome, newcomer. If you stick around, I think I'm going to end up liking you a lot.


For what it's worth, if I'm not misjudging things, in talking about "things arising" being proof of this that or the other thing, he is implicitly referencing the Buddhist doctrine of dependent origination, and the bare assertion is actually simply the tip of a much larger body of thought. (I would personally argue that the doctrine of dependent origination seems to arise out of other necessities in other Buddhist doctrine, most notably that of Anatta, or no self. I'm going a bit beyond my knowledge in the area, but my impression is that there is not simply one doctrine of dependent origination, but one doctrine with different meanings and interpretations; in particular, from what I understand, Nagarjuna's specific understanding of it was unorthodox for the time, and is part of what led to the arising of the Madhyamaka school as a major Buddhist school.)


Not that much of that applies, as this fellow here appears to have superficial understanding of both others and his own cherished doctrines. Like the Hare Krishna who was recently here, he seems more poseur than anything else.


As I said recently on another forum, the more I learn of Buddhists and Buddhism, the more I find to hate. It leaves me considering becoming a point man for criticism of Buddhism and Buddhists, as I seem uniquely well suited to the task. Although I'd much rather confine myself to my studies of brain science and epistemology, perhaps I should consider it.

Wikipedia Wrote:Pratitya samutpada is sometimes called the teaching of cause and effect, but that can be misleading, because we usually think of cause and effect as separate entities, with cause always preceding effect, and one cause leading to one effect. According to the teaching of Interdependent Co-Arising, cause and effect co-arise (samutpada) and everything is a result of multiple causes and conditions... In the sutras, this image is given: "Three cut reeds can stand only by leaning on one another. If you take one away, the other two will fall." For a table to exist, we need wood, a carpenter, time, skillfulness, and many other causes. And each of these causes needs other causes to be. The wood needs the forest, the sunshine, the rain, and so on. The carpenter needs his parents, breakfast, fresh air, and so on. And each of those things, in turn, has to be brought about by other causes and conditions. If we continue to look in this way, we'll see that nothing has been left out. Everything in the cosmos has come together to bring us this table. Looking deeply at the sunshine, the leaves of the tree, and the clouds, we can see the table. The one can be seen in the all, and the all can be seen in the one. One cause is never enough to bring about an effect. A cause must, at the same time, be an effect, and every effect must also be the cause of something else. Cause and effect inter-are. The idea of first and only cause, something that does not itself need a cause, cannot be applied.

One of my favorite concepts regarding dependent origination is that of 'Shì shì wú ài', which I suppose I love primarily because I'm a Sinophile and love the Chinese language, but it is useful in and of itself, too. I would translate the concept of shì shì wú ài as saying that "between each thing/event and every other thing/event, there is no-thing; 'being' is seemless from end to end; there are no gaps". A metaphor I've recently read which conveys the notion, similar to the reeds above, is that of two ships, anchored at harbor. The ships themselves, their reflections in the water, the image of their reflections in the water co-occurring with the image of the ships themselves, all these things interpenetrate each other simultaneously. [we'll ignore the speed of light for the moment] This is one way of understanding shì shì wú ài.


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Theism and Western atheism are on the same continuum. Both are realist. - by Angrboda - December 8, 2012 at 2:55 pm

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