Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 4, 2024, 6:44 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated
#13
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated
Both Egyptologist, Donald Redford and Archeologist, Israel Finkelstein, using evidence from different sources have concluded that the gist of the exodus tale was created during the Saite Period (663–525 b.c.)

Quote:Donald B. Redford, Egypt, Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times (Princeton University Press, Princeton NJ, 1992).
Whoever supplied the geographical information that now adorns the story had no information earlier than the Saite period (seventh to sixth centuries B.C.). The eastern Delta and Sinai he describes are those of the 26th Dynasty kings and the early Persian overlords: his toponyms reflect the renewed interest in the eastern frontier evidenced for this period by fort building and canalization. He knows of "Goshen" of the Qedarite Arabs, and a legendary "Land of Ramesses." He cannot locate the Egyptian court to anything but the largest and most famous city in his own day in the northeastern Delta, namely Tanis, the royal residence from about 1070 to 725 B.C. (cf. Psalm 78:12, 43), which survives as a metropolis into Roman times; and he mistakenly presses into service the adjacent marshy tract "the reed-(lake)" as the "Reed-sea," the scene of Israel's miraculous passage to safety. The route he is familiar with is that which traverses the same tract as the canal of Necho II (610-594 B.C.) from Bubastis to the Bitter Lakes; then he moves north in his mind's eye past the famous fort at Migdol to Lake Sirbonis (Ba'al Saphon) where Horus had already in the mythical past thrown Seth out of Egypt. In short, with respect to the geography of the Exodus, the post-Exilic compiler of the present Biblical version had no genuinely ancient details. He felt constrained to supply them from the Egypt of his own day and, significantly perhaps, cited several places where Asiatic elements and especially Judaean mercenaries resided in the sixth and fifth centuries.
Quote:
Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman, The Bible Unearthed (The Free Press, New York, 2001)

{p. 64} And what of other settlements and peoples mentioned in the account of the Israelites' wanderings? The biblical narrative recounts how the Canaanite king of Arad, "who dwelt in the Negeb," attacked the Israelites and took some of them captive - enraging them to the point that they appealed for divine assistance to destroy all the Canaanite cities (Numbers 21:1-3). Almost twenty years of intensive excavations at the site of Tel Arad east of Beersheba have revealed remains of a great Early Bronze Age city, about twenty-five acres in size, and an Iron Age fort, but no remains whatsoever from the Late Bronze Age, when the place was apparently deserted. The same holds true for the entire Beersheba valley. Arad simply did not exist in the Late Bronze Age.

The same situation is evident astward across the Jordan, where the wandering Israelites were forced to do battle at the city of Heshbon, capital of Sihon, king of the Amorites, who tried to block the Israelites from passing in his territory on their way to Canaan (Numbers 21:21-25; Deuteronomy 2:24-35: Judges 11:19-21). Excavations at Tel Hesban south of Amman, the location of ancient Heshbon, showed that there was no Late Bronze city, not even a small village there. And there is more here. According to the Bible, when the children of Israel moved along the Transjordanian plateau they met and confronted resistance not only in Moab but also from the full-fledged states of Edom and Ammon. Yet we now know that the plateau of Transjordan was very sparsely inhabited in the Late Bronze Age. In fact, most parts of this region, including Edom, which is mentioned as a state ruled by a king in the biblical narrative, were not even inhabited by a sedentary population at that time. To put it simply, archaeology has shown us that there were no kings of Edom there for the Israelites to meet.

The pattern should have become clear by now. Sites mentioned in the Exodus narrative are real. A few were well known and apparently occupied in much earlier periods and much later periods - after the kingdom of Judah was established, when the text of the biblical narrative was set down in writing for the first time. Unfortunately for those seeking a historical Exodus, they were unoccupied precisely at the time they reportedly played a role in the events of the wandering of the children of Israel in the wilderness.

{p. 65} Back to the Future: The Clues to the Seventh Century BCE

So where does this leave us? Can we say that the Exodus, the wandering, and - most important of all - the giving of the Law on Sinai do not possess even a kernel of truth? So many historical and geographical elements from so many periods may have been embedded in the Exodus story that it is hard to decide on a single unique period in which something like it might have occurred. There is the timeless rhythm of migrations to Egypt in antiquity. There is the specific incident of the Hyksos domination of the delta in the Middle Bronze Age. There are the suggestive parallels to elements of the Ramesside era relating to Egypt - together with the first mention of Israel (in Canaan, not Egypt). Many of the place-names in the book of Exodus, such as the Red Sea (in Hebrew Yam Suph), the river Shihor in the eastern delta (Joshua 13:3), and the Israelites' stopping place at Pi-ha-hiroth, seem to have Egyptian etymologies. They are all related to the geography of the Exodus, but they give no clear indication that they belong to a specific period in Egyptian history.

The historical vagueness of the Exodus story includes the fact that there is no mention by name of any specific Egyptian New Kingdom monarch (while later biblical materials do mention pharaohs by their names, for example Shishak and Necho). The identification of Ramesses II as the pharaoh of the Exodus came as the result of modern scholarly assumptions based on the identification of the place-name Pi-Ramesses with Raamses (Exodus 1:11; 12:37). But there are few indisputable links to the seventh century BCE. Beyond a vague reference to the Israelites' fear of taking the coastal route, there is no mention of the Egyptian forts in northern Sinai or their strongholds in Canaan. The Bible may reflect New Kingdom reality, but it might just as well reflect later conditions in the Iron Age, closer to the time when the Exodus narrative was put in writing.

And that is precisely what the Egyptologist Donald Redford has suggested. The most evocative and consistent geographical details of the Exodus story come from the seventh century BCE, during the great era of prosperity of the kingdom of Judah - six centuries after the events of the Exodus were supposed to have taken place. Redford has shown just how many details in the Exodus narrative can be explained in this setting, which

{p. 66} was also Egypt's last period of imperial power, under the rulers of the Twenty-sixth Dynasty. [/quote]

Could garbled memories of the Hyksos expulsion ( and the establishment of 4 centuries of Egyptian hegemony over Canaan which ensued) have lingered in Canaanite folklore? To some degree it seems likely. The pharaoh who defeated the Hyksos was Ahmose I. In Egyptian his name means Ah ( the moon god ) is born. This particular theophoric form is well attested in New Kingdom literature: Thutmoses ( Thoth is born) Ramoses {Ramesses} (Ra is born). So "mose(s)" by itself means what? Nobody is born?

Finkelstein's point is that in the entire first millenium BC there was only one point in time when both Egypt and Judah were in an expansionist phase at the same time and thus competitors. The late 7th century BC when Assyria was retrenching in response to the Babylonian revolt.
Egypt subdued Judah but Babylon defeated all of them.

Egypt maintained its independence against the Babylonians but beginning with the Persians Egypt was occupied by one conqueror after another until, after Actium in 31 BC they were reduced to provincial status by the Romans. Judah had a brief resurgence towards the end of the second century BC when it actually managed to occupy most of the territory once claimed by David's "Empire." It fell apart in dynastic squabbling and was swept under by Pompey the Great during his campaign in the east in 64-63 BC.

But all of this happened centuries after Thera erupted.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by TheJackel - December 6, 2012 at 1:19 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by SpecUVdust - December 6, 2012 at 2:51 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - December 6, 2012 at 4:00 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Gooders1002 - December 6, 2012 at 6:04 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by TheJackel - December 7, 2012 at 12:15 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - December 6, 2012 at 6:26 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - December 7, 2012 at 1:51 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by TheJackel - December 7, 2012 at 3:12 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Lion IRC - December 7, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by orogenicman - December 8, 2012 at 7:18 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by TheJackel - December 9, 2012 at 12:23 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - December 8, 2012 at 12:10 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - December 9, 2012 at 1:53 am
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by KichigaiNeko - February 20, 2015 at 6:37 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - February 20, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Yahweh Volcano Fire God of War: Updated - by Minimalist - February 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The War of 1812! chimp3 70 10018 May 12, 2018 at 2:12 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  How can you explain the miracle of the Holy Fire? Thracian 42 12139 April 23, 2018 at 1:18 pm
Last Post: Astreja
  NDE of future war of demons masquerading as aliens scoobysnack 73 28217 June 12, 2017 at 10:10 pm
Last Post: Cecelia
  Yahweh Killed by Operation Rescue fanatics Rhondazvous 7 2003 April 8, 2016 at 3:50 pm
Last Post: Rhondazvous
  How do people justify the worship of Yahweh? Celestine 13 5285 August 22, 2015 at 8:30 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Is it really a war? BrokenQuill92 15 5199 July 18, 2015 at 11:39 pm
Last Post: Spooky
  God is love. God is just. God is merciful. Chad32 62 22182 October 21, 2014 at 9:55 am
Last Post: Cheerful Charlie
  World war 3 lifesagift 94 24552 September 22, 2014 at 8:21 am
Last Post: Thumpalumpacus
  From Rags to Riches, Yahweh's Success Story DeistPaladin 2 1919 February 10, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Idol of Yahweh A_Nony_Mouse 7 5551 May 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Last Post: A_Nony_Mouse



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)