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Why do you believe?
RE: Why do you believe?
(December 10, 2012 at 6:58 am)FutureAndAHope Wrote: For a start not all Christians have a close walk with God, God must allow a miracle. There are various miracles God has not allowed me to do in my life. You can't say just because not all Christians, can do what I do it is not God. I know a friend personally who has prayed for paralized people and seen them 100% healed. I have prayed for paralized people and not seen them healed. Although I have healed one woman instantly of a long term back problem. If you want to see scientifically documented cases of divine healing go to http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn_eng/case/divine_case_e.asp

As for Muslums doing the same thing, I have talked to Muslums for years and only ever heard one claim of the divine, and it was nothing amazing. But if you have evidence of such things I am interested to know. But as a Christian I know there is a devil, and he can do miracles as well. I just choose to believe God. Who would want to be a Muslum anyway the Koran says men can beat their own wives, and kill unbelievers, both things I am sure God has no pleasure in.

A few things here. First, how do you determine which Christians "have a close walk with God" and which one's don't? Because you can simply SPIN, and RATIONALIZE, any situation in which to make it SOUND as if, "Oh that wasn't God, but this is...", or you can SPIN the bible into making it say anything you want it to (based on any criteria you assumed from the beginning), all without having ANY verification/falsification or testability/repeatability standards. How absurd! Anyone can shuffle the deck of interpretation so as to spin it in the direction of their assumptions. What you are giving us is nothing better than astrology or New Age mysticism. "Some people actualize their own reality better so they get better results." That is FAR from doing a critical investigation into the facts. No, that is just an attempt to twist the facts to fit what you already accepted from the beginning.

Second, your "scientifically documented cases" are not scientific at all. At their most basic level, they are Arguments from Ignorance/Incredulity. "We can't explain what happened, so instead of admitting that we don't know, we will posit a divine deity who did it." This is exactly what the ancients did when they saw lightening and heard thunder. "It must be Zeus!"

Third, do you know who the Sai BaBa of India is? How about the Tibetan Monks who claim miracles? How about the miracle doing Yogi's of India? There are literally hundreds of sects of different religions that make the same types of claims to the supernatural as you are attempting to make. Such claims are not original to your religion, and in fact pre-date your religion by millennia. As we go through them, case by case, taking a critically honest approach, we don't find the miraculous. We find unusual events that SOME people chose to INTERPRET as miraculous.

It's A Miracle! So they thought...for hundreds of years.




Finally, you say, "the Koran says men can beat their own wives, and kill unbelievers, both things I am sure God has no pleasure in." This is hilarious! Have you read your bible? Read 1 Samuel 15, Exodus 21, Judges 11, Psalm 137, Leviticus 20, or Deuteronomy 21. Your supposed "holy book" is FILLED with atrocities which are sanctioned and endorsed by your God (including slavery). You can try to spin/rationalize any of those passage, but then you are doing exactly what the Muslims do.
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Messages In This Thread
Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - November 30, 2012 at 9:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by SpecUVdust - November 30, 2012 at 7:28 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Aractus - December 1, 2012 at 10:19 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - November 30, 2012 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - November 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - November 30, 2012 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 8:36 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 8:53 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Simon Moon - November 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 8:58 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 9:02 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 9:10 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 9:29 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 9:54 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - November 30, 2012 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - November 30, 2012 at 9:27 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 10:52 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - November 30, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 10:03 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 10:17 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Dee Dee Ramone - November 30, 2012 at 10:03 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 10:19 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - November 30, 2012 at 10:43 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Faith No More - November 30, 2012 at 10:27 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - November 30, 2012 at 10:38 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 10:43 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Faith No More - November 30, 2012 at 10:47 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - November 30, 2012 at 11:23 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 1, 2012 at 12:39 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 2:05 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 1, 2012 at 2:13 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 4:22 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - November 30, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - November 30, 2012 at 11:16 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 12:46 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 1, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - December 1, 2012 at 12:53 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 1, 2012 at 12:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 1:30 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 1:39 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 1, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 2:29 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 2:33 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 3:19 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 1, 2012 at 3:43 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 4:36 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 3:47 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 4:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 5:17 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 1, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 3:47 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 3:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 1, 2012 at 3:35 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 1, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 1, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 1, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 3, 2012 at 7:06 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - November 30, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 1, 2012 at 12:31 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 1, 2012 at 1:37 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 12:34 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 1:28 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 1:56 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 4:24 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 2, 2012 at 4:50 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - December 2, 2012 at 4:55 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 2, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 2, 2012 at 6:59 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 4:47 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 5:25 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 5:27 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by downbeatplumb - December 1, 2012 at 5:47 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - December 1, 2012 at 5:53 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 1, 2012 at 6:41 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by SpecUVdust - December 1, 2012 at 3:09 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - December 1, 2012 at 5:31 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Something completely different - December 1, 2012 at 4:26 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - December 1, 2012 at 7:54 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 2, 2012 at 12:14 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - December 2, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 2, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 2, 2012 at 8:25 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Gooders1002 - December 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 3, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Cyberman - December 9, 2012 at 10:51 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Faith No More - December 1, 2012 at 11:40 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 1, 2012 at 3:11 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 4:23 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 1, 2012 at 4:29 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 1, 2012 at 4:59 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by SpecUVdust - December 1, 2012 at 5:41 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Faith No More - December 2, 2012 at 12:33 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 2, 2012 at 12:57 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 2, 2012 at 4:56 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 2, 2012 at 8:12 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The truth - December 2, 2012 at 8:39 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 2, 2012 at 8:48 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 2, 2012 at 8:19 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - December 2, 2012 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - December 3, 2012 at 4:18 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 5, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by jonb - December 5, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by genkaus - December 6, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 8, 2012 at 3:34 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 9, 2012 at 2:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 9, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 9, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 9, 2012 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by downbeatplumb - December 9, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 9, 2012 at 10:24 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 10, 2012 at 6:58 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 10, 2012 at 6:48 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 11, 2012 at 5:32 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 7:15 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Cyberman - December 11, 2012 at 7:24 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by CliveStaples - December 11, 2012 at 7:38 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 7:46 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by CliveStaples - December 11, 2012 at 7:54 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 8:44 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by CliveStaples - December 11, 2012 at 8:53 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Whateverist - December 11, 2012 at 9:55 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by genkaus - December 11, 2012 at 3:02 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 11, 2012 at 7:44 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Welsh cake - December 9, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - December 9, 2012 at 12:43 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 9, 2012 at 1:33 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by SpecUVdust - December 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by SpecUVdust - December 9, 2012 at 6:16 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 9, 2012 at 6:18 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Welsh cake - December 10, 2012 at 7:10 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by KichigaiNeko - December 10, 2012 at 9:00 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Kirbmarc - December 11, 2012 at 3:59 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 11, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Whateverist - December 11, 2012 at 6:41 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 11, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Darkstar - December 11, 2012 at 7:56 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2012 at 8:07 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 11, 2012 at 6:49 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - December 11, 2012 at 6:54 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - December 11, 2012 at 7:04 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Minimalist - December 11, 2012 at 8:12 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 11, 2012 at 8:28 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2012 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Cyberman - December 11, 2012 at 8:53 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 12, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 13, 2012 at 7:52 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 13, 2012 at 1:00 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Dee Dee Ramone - December 14, 2012 at 3:51 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Jackalope - December 11, 2012 at 10:06 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Annik - December 11, 2012 at 8:29 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Faith No More - December 11, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Cyberman - December 13, 2012 at 7:20 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by FutureAndAHope - December 14, 2012 at 3:04 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Voltron - December 14, 2012 at 3:25 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by pocaracas - December 14, 2012 at 6:04 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by Cyberman - December 14, 2012 at 7:23 pm
RE: Why do you believe? - by Annik - December 14, 2012 at 3:23 am
RE: Why do you believe? - by median - December 20, 2012 at 8:03 pm

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