Which Comes First?

[Edwardo Piet]

You don't believe morality or good and evil exist, but you take pride in labeling yourself a "good person".

I never said I took pride. And I don't believe they exist objectively. But I do - obviously - believe they exist subjectively.

You concede that your explanation of morality is meaningless (in reality, to other people, etc).

. No, not to other people. Our own opinions and views effect each other . I think I'm a good person, and so do others. Some people like me more than others. This is all a subjective matter.

You're "good" (by your own standards!) to impress yourself and that's noble?

When did I say this was about impressing myself? Yes by my own standards, and by the standards of those who also believe I am. Where is your evidence for objective morality? This is all a subjective matter as far as I'm concerned. Got any reason for me to believe it isn't?

This is self-absorption, self-righteous, self-centered...not good, noble, or worthy.

In your own subjective opinion. Subjective morality once again.

Now I'd just like to know where you think I gave a sense of self-absorption, self-righteousness and self-centredness in my post.

1. I didn't say I was proud. On the contrary I said I didn't need satisfaction in order to be good. I also said that I thought I was good, I don't claim to now that I am. That's humility not pride, I would think?

2. What do you mean by 'self absorption?' since morality is subjective in my view, because there's no evidence that it's objective - then how can I have or not have any moral beliefs other than in my own subjective way?

3. Self-righteousness? Well, as I said: I'm not claming to know what is or isn't moral or immoral here. On the contrary, I believe it is subjective. You on the other hand believe you know the objective morals, if one of is self-righteous then, it is you. For you are the one claiming to know something that you cannot, and that you have no evidence of whatsoever it seems, insofar as I can tell.

4. Self centreness? When did I speak of morality being about being self-centered? On the contrary, I think morality is about caring for others as well as yourself, and you don't need an imaginary guy in the sky in order to care. Show me otherwise.

5. I believe it is more noble to be good because you're good, and to care because you care, rather than simply being so because you're God made you that way. Because you can care on your own without needing to be protected by the magic guy in the sky.

And is it not a more ignoble reason to be good and to care, if you only do so because your God asks of it? And you can't be good, can't be moral, without him, perhaps?

You're insane.

That is your own subjective opinion. Along with all your morals - and everyone else's, myself included - which you have failed to evidence as being somehow objective as you claim them to be.

And I can't say I'm surprised that you bow down to me when you believe I'm insane. Because you worship God and he's an incredibly insane idea. But once a delusion is so popular, it's almost as if there's no stopping it - for some people... - eh?

EvF