RE: What things are bad in Islam?
January 20, 2013 at 7:37 pm
(This post was last modified: January 20, 2013 at 7:48 pm by Angrboda.)
(January 20, 2013 at 5:29 pm)ThatMuslimGuy Wrote:(January 20, 2013 at 5:03 pm)apophenia Wrote: I think you'd be greatly disappointed with what remains after you remove all the fluff, irrelevancies and nonsense. For instance, that wall of text on the first sura he defended amounts to a bare assertion that it means patron rather than friend, followed by some more bare assertion in the guise of some other Muslims attempting to pretend they knew what the mind of God was in dictating the term.
How is it a bare assumption when the scholar who studied at the best Arabic and Islamic university in the world and who graduated in Arabic explains the word used in the Qur'an. If your not gonna accept someone who knows Arabic fluently i might as well stop here.
It's a bare assertion because the "scholar" in question, while acknowledging multiple meanings for the word, claims it means X instead of Y in the passage without giving any reason for the preference. That makes it a bare assertion, and any supposed credentials regarding his schooling and his knowledge of Arabic are irrelevant to the point. If you can't hack it, perhaps you should leave. I'm not overly impressed by the bare assertions of fellow kool-aid drinkers.
Quote:The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master" ... In the Qur'an this word is used for God ... The same word is also sometimes used in the Qur'an for human beings, such as {....And whosoever is killed unjustly, We have granted his next kin ["wali"] the authority (to seek judgement or punishment in this case)…} (Al-‘Isra' 17 :33)(emphasis added)
(There is an additional difficulty. Imam Ibn Kathir notes that some scholars suggest that the sura was revealed after the battle of Uhad as a response to some Muslims suggesting they seek shelter among the Jews. Beyond the problem of inferring God's intent, from what I understand, the Quran isn't arranged in chronological order and wasn't collected together until long after its original dissemination, so it's questionable the the "scholars" to which the Imam refers were actually basing this on anything concrete; feel free to demonstrate otherwise.)