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A Miracle!!
#22
RE: A Miracle!!
(October 26, 2009 at 10:04 am)rjh4 Wrote:
(October 26, 2009 at 8:43 am)amw79 Wrote: Apologies, I wasn't clear in my comment, I know you reserved judgement on solarwave's "miracle"; however the comment was more generally aimed to make the point that if one believes in miracles, a) you'll start looking for them where its not necessary and another explanation will suffice, and b) even if no explanation is available - it's illogical to posit an explanation which will yield no evidence, and cannot itself be explained.

Thanks for the clarification. I disagree with your conclusions though. Regarding a), Just because one's presuppositions allows for miracles does not mean that one automatically begins at miracles for the explanation of everything. It is not true of me, I know. Regarding b), that seems to me just a statement of your presupposition against miracles.

Say, for example, God really did, in fact, perform a miracle in Solarwave's friend's life. Let's say that is the absolute truth, i.e., what really and truly happened. You would never accept that based on your presupposition and no matter what explanation you came up with as a "possibility" it would not be the truth. So in this way, your presuppositions may very well limit you in your quest for real (actual/truthful) answers in life.

In respect of a) it would seem that solarwave in this case has begun at the miracle explanation without having much further detail or looking for any other explanation. He's took somebody's word of a miracle as fact, without question. As to b) it certainly is illogical that where there is a lack of evidence, to simply posit an explanation of a miracle (The god of the gaps). Surely the logical step would be to withhold judgement whilst trying to find further evidence.

In your example that solarwave's miracle is genuine, I certainly wouldn't accept this explanation, when there are perfectly plausible non-supernatural explanations. Its a question of evidence and probability.

For example, I could say that as I child I couldn't swim. However I prayed really hard, and eventually I passed all my swimming exams. Therefore - a miracle. Sure I had loads of coaching and lessons, and had to stay back an extra hour each night in order to get myself to a standard to pass the exams, but it was definately a miracle.
Solarwave's example is no different to this (aside from the vague mention of "Brain problems", which he did not clarify or expand on, and I suspect is artistic license.)

Out of interest, you mentioned that you do believe in miracles. Aside from the 'documented' miracles of the bible, do you have any (non-anecdotal) evidence of miracles you would like to share.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 24, 2009 at 2:58 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Darwinian - October 24, 2009 at 3:02 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Minimalist - October 24, 2009 at 3:16 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - October 24, 2009 at 3:16 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 24, 2009 at 3:41 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Minimalist - October 24, 2009 at 3:44 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by AngelaRachnid - October 24, 2009 at 4:56 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Eilonnwy - October 26, 2009 at 10:29 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by AngelaRachnid - October 26, 2009 at 9:23 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by padraic - October 25, 2009 at 7:12 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 25, 2009 at 10:11 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by amw79 - October 25, 2009 at 11:45 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 25, 2009 at 3:48 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Craveman - October 25, 2009 at 4:16 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by amw79 - October 25, 2009 at 5:18 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 26, 2009 at 8:13 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Craveman - October 25, 2009 at 2:16 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 25, 2009 at 5:58 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by theblindferrengi - October 25, 2009 at 11:55 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 26, 2009 at 6:37 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by amw79 - October 26, 2009 at 8:43 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 26, 2009 at 10:04 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by amw79 - October 26, 2009 at 10:30 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 11:42 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 26, 2009 at 6:57 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by theVOID - October 26, 2009 at 7:35 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 28, 2009 at 12:25 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by AngelaRachnid - October 28, 2009 at 9:46 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2009 at 5:01 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - October 26, 2009 at 10:35 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Minimalist - October 26, 2009 at 11:32 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - October 26, 2009 at 12:54 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - October 26, 2009 at 2:20 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 26, 2009 at 2:25 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Eilonnwy - October 26, 2009 at 2:32 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - October 26, 2009 at 2:38 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 26, 2009 at 3:31 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Eilonnwy - October 27, 2009 at 10:03 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by rjh4 - October 27, 2009 at 10:16 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Eilonnwy - October 27, 2009 at 1:01 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 3:46 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - October 26, 2009 at 4:04 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 4:18 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Rhizomorph13 - October 26, 2009 at 4:35 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by theVOID - October 26, 2009 at 6:45 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by theblindferrengi - October 27, 2009 at 10:33 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - October 27, 2009 at 11:42 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by theblindferrengi - October 27, 2009 at 8:01 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - October 28, 2009 at 1:24 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 3:05 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by AngelaRachnid - November 1, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 5:31 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - October 31, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2009 at 5:15 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 1, 2009 at 11:32 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - November 2, 2009 at 1:42 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by downbeatplumb - November 3, 2009 at 12:57 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Darwinian - November 4, 2009 at 10:11 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:13 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 6:10 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 1:34 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 1:38 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 1:57 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 2:17 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:25 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 2:36 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 3:27 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:26 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - November 4, 2009 at 2:44 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 2:48 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:50 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - November 4, 2009 at 3:09 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 3:16 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - November 4, 2009 at 3:45 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 3:37 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 3:34 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 4:05 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 4:21 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 4:29 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Meatball - November 4, 2009 at 4:45 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 6:08 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 4, 2009 at 6:48 pm
RE: A Miracle!! - by solarwave - November 5, 2009 at 4:33 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 5, 2009 at 7:25 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 5, 2009 at 6:05 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by leo-rcc - November 5, 2009 at 7:47 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by Tiberius - November 5, 2009 at 8:05 am
RE: A Miracle!! - by theblindferrengi - November 5, 2009 at 11:01 am

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