The Case for Theism

[Mister Agenda]

No the point is if the was no universe that supports life, then no one would be here to wonder if our existence was intentionally caused or whether it was the result of happenstance (watch out there is a guy in here who thinks that's a false dichotomy). If no universe existed, the case for theism would be closed. The fact a universe does exist is at least cause to suppose either mindless forces somehow caused it to exist or it was intentionally caused to exist. Atheism to be true doesn't require a universe to exist. Theism requires some place for us to exist in order to consider the universe may have been intentionally designed and created.

Um, theism could be true without a universe existing, unless you're saying that there can't be a God without a cosmos (and that would need to be supported). Both positions require someone to exist to hold the position. A theist is a person who believes at least one god exists, an atheist is a person who isn't a theist. Presumably, a God would count as a person who believes (knows for a fact, in fact) that at least one God exists, so theism is a position that can be held in the absence of a universe, while atheism cannot.

No I never said anything about the nature of the existence of God. Such a universe wasn't caused intentionally, wasn't planned and didn't intend humans or life to exist right? Explain to me how apart from mind and intent anything can occur that isn't by happenstance?

Physical necessity. When a tree falls down, the timing may be unpredictable, but trees don't stand forever. Death and gravity are inevitable. The energy balance of the universe is extremetly close to, if not exactly, zero. In other words, we live in the sort of universe to be expected if the initial conditions were a quantum vacuum fluctuation, because the formation of physical laws were constrained by the available energy and matter: none or practically none. It might turn out that if there are multiple universes, they tend to run very similar to ours. I'm not saying this is the case (no one can honestly say what exactly the case is yet), just presenting it as an example of a possible universe resulting from necessity (albeit, blind) rather than happenstance: one where our universe had to happen and had to turn out much the way it has, because that's how universe formation works.