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Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 12:40 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2015 at 12:41 pm by watchamadoodle.)
I've heard that belief in God is just an extension of capabilities used in social interactions. A person must imagine the mind of the other person (motivations, feelings, etc.). Sometimes a person must imagine the mind of another person even when that person is not present. And it is just one more step to imagine the mind of a person that never has existed - God.
So it seems likely that social animals like cats, dogs, birds would become theists. The tendency to imagine God requires less cognitive ability than the ability to realize there is no God.
Instead of thinking that the default condition is atheism, it seems to me that the default condition is theism, and atheism is the next step in human evolution.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2015 at 1:47 pm by Alex K.)
Dennett argues that theism is an extension of the tendency to assign agency to certain objects around you, which is a very important ability which we share with other animals. It lets us recognize companions as well as predators. When this sense runs wild, a dog will bark at a random noise, and we will think the weather has a will of its own.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm
We're clever enough to ask the questions but dumb enough to think we can answer them.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 1:48 pm
(February 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm)robvalue Wrote: We're clever enough to ask the questions but dumb enough to think we can answer them.
The life of the theoretical physicist in a nutshell 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 1:52 pm
(February 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Alex K Wrote: Dennett argues that theism is an extension of the tendency to assign agency to certain objects around you, which is a very important ability which we share with other animals. It lets us recognize companions as well as predators. When this sense runs wild, a dog will bark at a random noise, and we will think the weather has a will of its own.
There's a bit of a leap in barking at the wind and attributing the actions of that wind to an all seeing all knowing deity. This Dennett guy sounds like he's talking a bit of shit to me.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 1:59 pm
If it sounds unconvincing or wrong, it's surely becauese I failed at giving a coherent 1 line summary of a book I've read 5 years ago... Dennett is a very smart guy.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 2:02 pm
I think I understand what he's saying. It's just, to me, there's a giant difference between attributing a mind/personality/whatever you want to call it to an object, and then suggesting the idea of a deity that is behind that object. But maybe I don't understand it.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2015 at 3:01 pm by vorlon13.)
One of my cats definitely sees me in a servant role. A tragically and hopelessly flawed servant.
The other one, however, really does acknowledge me as a superior being. While cute and endearing, it is pretty silly, it's just when he looks up at me, I can tell the little hairball is about to burst with admiration. It would really be nice if the OTHER cat could at least try to fake that sentiment once in a while.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 2:43 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2015 at 3:08 pm by Simon Moon.)
Dogs - "humans feed me, love me, shelter me. They must be gods.
Cats - "humans feed me, love me, shelter me. I must be a god"
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Theism in animal minds
February 7, 2015 at 2:45 pm
I seem to have a mutual worship thing going on with my dog.
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