Mind / Brain

[Angrboda]

In this case, the evidence is that the things we see in our physical world are the result of physical things. Hence, the mind is a product of the brain.

Oh? So you're claiming to actually have seen a mind? What did it look like? Was it black and white, or was it a specific color?

Look, I think there's reasonable justification for believing that the mind is a result of physical processes, and as noted elsewhere, I have a model which I believe can explain consciousness in terms of material processes. However, independent of an actual model of the mechanism, you have the case where X and Y appear to go together, but not that X causes Y; without a model to ground a causal explanation, then all you have is correlation, and correlation does not imply causation. This is especially true when we have theories which appeal to currently not understood physical and biological mechanisms (such as microtubules and Crick's resonance hypothesis). If either of those is the case, claiming the brain causes consciousness would be flat out wrong, because by "brain," you mean the understood processes of neurons and neural networks. I think both of you are invalidly concluding more than the evidence allows.

And whateverist, I don't know what to make of your objection regarding animal consciousness other than that it's a red herring. Unless you can demonstrate that physical processes are the cause of any similar phenomenon in animals, pointing out more (hypothetical) examples of consciousness adds nothing. (And asking what the alternative explanation is or might be is an argument from ignorance and cuts no ice.)

And I'm quite familiar with much of the neuroscientific evidence, thank you very much.