Quote:This has been a bit of a long thread and the "proofs" you have supplied so far are not convincing. Why is it, do you suppose, that you should have to go to such great lengths to prove your god exists? If he is as powerful and omnipresent as you believe, shouldn't proving him be a really simple task?
Actually its a very simple case submitting 5 irrefutable facts that support belief in theism. Those are the main reasons why a significant majority of people subscribe to some form of theism.
Quote:As for the narrow tolerances of the universe we find ourselves in, it is not surprising at all (and in fact it is REQUIRED) that our universe is exactly as it is. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't exist to find ourselves here
Why do we need to be here? I agree if conditions weren't nearly exactly as they are we wouldn't be here. Since according to atheists we aren't the result of plan or design or intent why would the universe care if the conditions for human life obtain?
Quote:Simply saying that the conditions of our universe are too specific to be here by pure chance is like saying that the chances of a particular raindrop falling on your head are too small for it to happen
It could be by chance if according to Martin Rees there are an infinitude of universes of varying characteristics. The ultimate time and chance in the gaps argument.
Quote:Nevertheless, out of all the countless billions of raindrops on the planet, all of the possible places you could be, all of the possible places the rain could fall, all of the possible times and orientations, weather conditions, humidity, wind and countless other factors, that raindrop still fell on your head.
I live near Seattle...
Quote:In the end, the chances of us finding ourselves in exactly the universe in which we find ourselves is exactly 1:1. This is where we are and getting here doesn't require a guiding hand or creator in any way. Our existence in this universe was inevitable.
That and a $1.00 will buy you a cup of coffee.
Quote:Isn't the same thing true of our planet? A real Goldilocks set of circumstances to be sure. But are those conditions as they are so that someone's creation will be nice and cozy? Or are we here to ask the question because the conditions for our existence made it possible to become observers?
There are many planetary conditions necessary for our type of life to exist but given the number of stars and confirmation those stars have planets its likely some solar system might contain a planet with favorable conditions.
Quote:No, because the burden of proof is on the person proposing the existence of the entity extra to the "naturalistic explanations" that already account for observed reality.
There are no verified naturalistic explanations that account for how the nature we observe came into existence. I agree the universe exists and we exist but you don't really have any idea how that came about do you? Do you think we are the result of a never begining endless recession of events that ultimately resulted in sentient beings who wonder how the heck we got here? Its not just theists who make a claim about how the universe and humans came about. Thiests claim we are the result of a Creator who intended our existence, atheists claim it was not. Thats what atheism means not or without God. Supposedly you have facts and data to support your opinion just as I do.
Quote:You're attempting a case, to be sure, but cogency is for the audience to decide.
I stand corrected.
