The Case for Theism

[Esquilax]

Then I would question how seriously you really ponder this issue. This issue we are debating is about how we as a people came into existence and how the universe that allows our existence came about. There are two lines of reasoning; we came about by some naturalistic process that wasn't by intention or design but just happened to have happened or we came about intentionally by design by some Creator who caused our existence.

No matter how many times you say that, you're still wrong. I've shown you why.

Why should either belief be accepted by default?

You're quite right, neither of them should be believed by default, nor should any of the other multitude of possibilities you've closed your mind to. The problem we're having is that you are assuming that, by dint of disagreeing with your accepted belief, we are necessarily believing in the opposite. This is not only wrong, it's downright rude, given how many times this has been pointed out to you.

There's a third answer even in your false dichotomy, Drew. Saying "I do not believe in your claims about a created universe," does not trap us into the claim "I believe the universe was created from unguided methods." The option most of us slip to is "I don't know yet, and despite your claims otherwise, neither do you." It's entirely possible to just be waiting for more conclusive evidence than you're providing, you know.

Now, I argue against you, but that says nothing about my position, either. I argue against you because I find your argumentation to be fallacious and in need of correcting. I enjoy it, or at least, I do whenever my opponent appears capable of changing his argument. You just... keep on going.

Why should you or anyone think to themselves I'll believe it was by a natural unintended process unless proven otherwise?

They shouldn't. We don't.

I don't know that natural forces did do it...I don't even know if they could do it. By the way, most atheists claim they have arrived at their conclusion because they claim thats where the facts lead. What facts?

The ones we've been providing you with all thread. Great to see how closely you've been paying attention, though.

Oh, and the absence of facts also count: we've certainly got no facts that actually point to a creator.