Rhythm Wrote:If it's his knowledge that makes him right (omniscience), then I don't see why I need him. I'll just look for that knowledge myself, cut out the middleman - in the meantime I'll continue doing what I;m already doing, you know "the good". My "own ideas" might end up being the same ideas that god has - what with the knowledge being out there and all - for either of us to grasp.
So you don't want God, but you do want everything that he does... God is the source of truth, so there is no knowledge outside of God. God is the source of goodness, so there is no goodness outside of God. You want everything that God offers and nothing to do with God. Can't have it both ways.
ChadWooters Wrote:(Swedenborgian clears throat...) Have you ever calculated the size of a literal New Jerusalem? The Apocalypse is so richly endowed with symbolism, how can you even pretend that John's was witnessing physical events? So why does resurrection have to be a physical body (i.e. one governed by the laws of physics). Jesus in his glorified state had a body that transcended all natural laws, changing appearance and manifesting in closed rooms. We are told we will get a new body, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. But is doesn't say you get a new "physical" body, etc. I don't see the point of waiting around for 'end times' before getting your new spiritual body.
Revelation is jam packed with symbolism, but that doesn't make it useless in learning. You said yourself, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. If we all around around in heaven, whats the purpose of the new earth? I see a restoration of the garden of eden. Plants, animals, physical bodies, hot, cold, and everything else to do with the material universe is good. It was good then and good now. If we don't have physical bodies, we are limited in how many good things we can receive. The difference from the bodies we have now and the bodies we will have is that we won't have any restrictions of the body.
Rhythm Wrote:More accurately, if I don't accept your definition of faith - a definition which we both agree not every christian would hold to........
So your previous comment was meaningless... This is usually how our conversations go and why I have you on ignore.
Tex: I claim position X is true.
Rhythm: Its not really X, its more like Y, but (insert random insult here).
T: Since we're assuming Z for the time being, you can't do Y.
R: I don't assume.
T: Then you're post didn't actually contribute to anything and you're nothing but a troll.
R: I know... I like it...
Rhythm Wrote:Why? Besides, I thought you just said that it was his knowledge that made him right. He may know whats right, but I might also, do either of us own it? I hardly think so.
God owns it. You cannot get knowledge outside of God. If you choose to walk, which is your option, you are renouncing truth. Sure, you can go make up your own "truth", but that is exactly what I'm talking about with "the tortures in hell are from the people themselves".
Rhythm Wrote:But I'm not interested in shortcuts via magic Tex. I don't mind taking the time, walking the path, and figuring these things out for myself. I find that I value thing much more highly when I've had to do something to achieve them. Handouts don't really do it for me. Besides...you did mention that I didn't -need them-. So what gives?
I was speaking of this life... If some Christian wonders, "Do I really have faith?", they can be assured in their baptism and Eucharist. After resurrection, assurance really isn't necessary. However, the workings of the universe, metaphysics, ethical formulas, God himself, and more get to studied for the rest of eternity. The only answer we get are that we're in paradise.
Rhythm Wrote:Meh, I can't see how I treat god like anything, never met the man, never spoke to the man, never met anyone who met or spoke to the man. You're confusing your own opinions and thoughts on the matter for "god" it would seem. Meh, I lack necessary parts of the good, you lack necessary parts of the good - you did mention this yourself, that no one has it all.
You're proving my point. If there is truly a God up there, you are certainly doing him a disservice. Also, "necessary" is the Good towards God. At the most basic form, this is an internal disposition toward God, even if never reflected outward. No threat being made here (mainly because I don't have any power to enforce it), but I don't lack the necessary and, if I trust your words, you do. Faking a faith wouldn't help though, but once adult, the first step toward an actual relationship is humility.
Rhythm Wrote:An atheist who would change his mind if someone just cleared up all his misconceptions.
I totally don't this, it is soooooo not a misconception. It much more uniting your personal purpose with God. I don't think a non-personal God would appeal even in the least bit. Unless God somehow becomes this thing in your head that cares, God is worthless to you.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.