How do you know God isn't dead?

[Statler Waldorf]

Red becomes violet as a light wave shortens. Show me exactly where red ends and violet begins.

That’s a faulty analogy because the spectrum of life on Earth has never been observed to be a gradual distinction, but rather very classifiable. What gave birth to the very first Human and what made that animal not a Human? I think that’s a rather simple question.

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It's an interesting example, and admittedly, I'm not an evolutionary biologist. But I would also say there are physical changes, certainly, that can be identified that show subtle differences in different races around the planet. Indo-Chinese folk tend to be shorter than Africans or Europeans for example. I can't cite what environmental factors have led to this change, but this is an interesting article that highlights the genetic links between different races of homo sapien that exist both historically and today: http://dnatribes.com/sample-results/dnat...nities.pdf

I can't comment on the aborigines but I can cite examples of other tribes that have, for the lack of a better description, have become isolated and adapted to their environment better. This was a TV programme on the BBC a while back that looked at various human tribes living around the world in various environments:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00llpvp not sure if you'll be able to watch it but I seriously recommend it if you ever come across it, its pretty amazing if just for the camera work. One part stands out in my memory:





For one episode they followed a Polynesian/ Philippino tribe called the Bajau. They exist almost exclusively on the sea, and have done so for several generations, living in small shacks or stilted huts that are built on archipelagos around Indo-china and further out.

Many of their hunters can dive down to 20 meters, without equipment, for several minutes at a time. Their hunters have adapted over several generations to effectively create their own negative buoyancy, to regulate their own heart beat and slow it down manually almost at a whim. Now of course it is technically feasible for anyone anywhere to do this, but its an example of where the environment these folk live in has created a necessity to adapt if they want to continue to exist in that environment, and I think you'll agree, they've adapted quite well it seems.

That documentary has several example of where tribes have adapted to their environment and the living conditions they face extremely well, to the point where people living in other environments in the world could not survive without the aid of technology. Another obvious example not on the BBC documentary is people living at high altitude, such as the Sherpas, who have adapted perfectly to be able to live in low oxygen atmospheres.

I do also stand by my point that one species/people cannot be more evolved than another. It is entirely about adaption and survival.

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Thanks for the interesting response! Yes, I am not saying that we do not see differences in races of people based upon where they live, all creationists agree that happens. I am just not getting how you go from that observable fact to the claim, “therefore all life on Earth came from one common ancestor.” That seems like the old fallacy of extrapolation. If the different kinds of animals were created as the Bible says they were and then species developed through the years within their Biblical kind we would still expect to see such changes right? It seems like the data actually supports both theories.

I read a paper a few years ago where the genetic match for an organ transplant was actually between an Irish man and an Aboriginal man. So here you have two people groups that have been separated by supposedly 40,000 years and they are still so genetically similar that they are organ transplant matches? There are some siblings that are not similar enough to do organ transplants. It just doesn’t seem to add up.

And they determine different species through different fossils, which I assume to be a very tricky business... because you have to account for age, deformations during the fossilization process, incomplete fossils, no DNA....

It always seems to come back to the fossils. :-P So would you concede that if the fossil “record” is not truly a record of death and burial over long periods of time then the whole Evolutionary paradigm dies?

It's never just one thing, is it?
The idea is that, at some point, there is sufficient genetic change that these individuals are incompatible with the original ones.

That should involve other selective pressures though, and there really are not many different selective pressures from one island to the next, those ecosystems are very similar. This just seems like storytelling to me, I totally agree that you can get different beak sizes and shapes, but I do not see how that gives you anything other than a Finch with a different beak. Bulldogs and Great Danes are still both dogs you know.

Perhaps you're right... but that's how I see the process going.
Perhaps I'm wrong... as I've stated, I'm no biologist, so my view is based on high-school science class and a few documentaries... not exactly an expert, am I?

No, I think you’re explaining it right, I just have never thought the explanation quite added up.

Weren't we stretching the definition of species?

I've looked at this list:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hum...on_fossils
and I see neandertals at about 250 thousand years ago, so it roughly matches with homo sapiens, so it makes sense that they would be compatible.
It would also make sense that homo sapiens be compatible with homo erectus, but not with homo habilis, while homo erectus would be compatible with homo habilis.
Of course, they are all extinct, so we can't really check. Only guess... unless anyone here knows about some DNA from these extinct species.

Well they are always finding new DNA in these ancient fossils, so probably someday soon. I have never seen one of these examples that didn’t seem to actually be just a Human or a large Ape, I think Evolutionists overplay their hand a bit with all of these supposed primate linkages (they are often merely artistic interpretations of how the animal ought to have looked based on merely a handful of bones).

Snapshots may not exist... all groups kept evolving to the changing environment....
Although, all humans (not at the same time) have adapted the environment to themselves, so I'd accept that for the past few hundreds of years we stopped evolving.

Well physically that may be true, but why would Aboriginals continue to progress mentally if they are still using Stone Age tools and essentially still possess a Stone Age understanding of their Environment? Mentally they should be a snap shot no?

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Obviously there was no pressure to develop significant differences. The theory does not say there must be change. Humans have been around between 120 and 200 thousand years. For all but the last 6000 everyone was hunter-gatherer as Australoids were H-G. That is hardly time for a difference between Australoid and the rest to develop. Beyond that it is not clear what genetic differences farming might have lead to if industrialization had not replaced it.

However if you insist upon change look to the skin color of the Amerinds found only in the New World. While that is most likely due to the characteristics of a small group crossing over it could also be the skin color of all Asians of 17,000 years ago. In that case Chinese/Oriental skin color would be the change from Amerind color.

In any event the Australoid skin color is almost certainly the original out of Africa color but there is disagreement there also as with everything else.

If you want to take it further it was only between 15 and 12 thousand years ago that Australia became isolated by rising sea level at the end of the ice age. Before that there was dry land almost all the way from SE Asia to Australia. There were no great sea voyages. They walked almost all the way. So there really has not been much more isolation than for Amerinds.

Is there anything else?

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Thanks for the response Mouse. Most estimates I can find suggest the Aboriginals were isolated around 40,000 years ago.
This just seems all too convenient though, whenever we try to find observable data to support the theory Evolutionists just say, “Well there doesn’t have to be any change.” Or “it takes too long for the changes to occur so that we never actually observe it happening.” When they are really pushed they may offer a few examples of simple adaptations that also support the Creation model like a few changes in skin color or beak sizes. It’s just very underwhelming for a theory that’s so violently championed and defended by its supporters. That doesn’t bother you guys or give you doubts at all?