RE: Homosexuality is a sin? Well, Xtians, what about these other 76 things?
May 22, 2013 at 1:34 pm
(May 22, 2013 at 1:19 am)Drich Wrote: When you love God you want to do what God would have you do. When you love self you want to do what you want to do.
So, when you do not do what God would have you do (i.e. killing bratty children or people who don't take Saturday off), you do not love God.
Quote:The Galatains wrestled with this same question with Paul in Gal 3 :19 So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abraham came.
The law continues to this day according to Matt 5. And, the fact that the law carried so many gruesome penalties means that it was certainly not just to be demonstrative. It is a bad law because it does not explain or justify itself. I know that you don't think God has to explain or justify himself to anybody, but it's a bad law nonetheless for lacking it. It's nothing but the arbitrary whims of a capricious tyrant. The law serves only to make people do what God wants, which is obviously a lot of death and killing and misery and pointless restrictions. The character of Joffrey from Game of Thrones shows exactly the same sort of behavior as God in the Bible, only Joffrey never pretends that he's a good guy.
Quote:Did you not read Mat 5 where Jesus specifically says one must seek a righteousness greater than the law base righteousness of the Pharasees?
And you mean to say this means that Jesus really didn't mean it when he insisted that everybody follow the law to the letter and not violate a single commandment, nor instruct anyone else to do so? You never seem to address that.
Quote:The passage Means exactly what it says as a whole.
I honestly do not know if you do not understand the whole concept or simply refuse to look at any more of the passage than what you need for your argument. The Law Jesus did not come to abolish is all still in effect this includes the do's and don'ts, but it also includes the caviots for atonement of sin. In the Law there is a way for sin to be atoned for. Christ's atonement covers all sin. This does not mean that the law is null and void. This means your sins are forgiven as long as you are loving God with all that God has given you to love and worship Him. That means salvation becomes about complete love and devotion no matter what that might look like as long as it is 100% complete effort on your part, and it ceases to be about law and loop holes, and outward showings/going through the motions of religious practices with no feeling, want or desire.
So, what happens when God judges you and sees that you made absolutely no effort whatsoever to even try to hold to most of his law? You didn't kill your unruly children. You didn't stone homosexuals. Your wife went to church a week after birthing a daughter. What is your atonement even worth when you don't actually even try?
Quote:Again not contradictory, you have taken 1 verse out of a bank of 5 expounded on the one verse's meaning and have ignored the rest of the passage for the sake of your argument. whether you do this out of ignorance or obstinance is of little concern to me, because at this point you have been exposed to the truth several times. What you do with it is up to you.
It really isn't contradictory, until you attempt to interpret that particular passage as not meaning what it very clearly says in multiple translations. Even if you can be forgiven in spite of failing to live up to the law, if you're not even trying to live up to it (and no decent human being would), on what basis do you think God is going to forgive you? Do you think he's going to look at the fact that you're so sanctimonious and preachy and think that makes up for your complete contempt for his laws? That is why I keep bringing this subject up. I know that following the law is not necessary by itself to go to heaven, but Jesus does expect everyone to follow it, and it's obvious that God takes your adherence to the law into account when he decides how sincere you are about loving him. And, if that's true, you're just as fucked as I am.
(May 22, 2013 at 11:14 am)John V Wrote: Romans 2
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them
I have to admit that this passage makes no sense to me.