Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

[Consilius]

What Jesus did is wipe the slate clean. He took sin upon himself and it died with him on a cross. The alternative is that we suffer for our own sins.
God doesn't do magic. The universe is subject to laws and he works within the laws he created.

The laws of the universe do not require a human being to die in order that other human beings to not burn for eternity. This is delusional thinking.

Is this being said out of pity for Jesus? The man who predicted his own death then continued to act towards it?
You are generalizing Christ's mission. Christians don't regularly sacrifice people for their absolution. But Jews once sacrificed animals. What Jesus did was a pure, holy sacrifice to end all sacrifices. It cannot be replicated.

Consider justice this way: a murderer is truly sorry for what he did. Do we let him go, or do we make him pay the price for his crimes?

We keep him in jail so he can't murder anyone else. This is a far cry from the Christian idea that humans suffer for eternity for their sin or that some god-man had to die so some of them wouldn't have to suffer.

I thought the murderer was a changed man on the inside and would never kill again. Let's pretend he actually was.

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[quote='Consilius' pid='454232' dateline='1370155669']
What you are suggesting is that the Bible somehow multiplies the value of humanity.

I actually have no problem with the value of human life being great. I value it that way.

However, I'm not an advocate of stories being invented which suggest that the entire point of the universe is the struggle of human beings.

That's ridiciulous in my view.

In the same Bible, humans are at many times helpless at the will of God.
What the Bible does is put humans in place, taking our strengths and our weaknesses, and makes us who we are: masters, indeed, but masters of the created world, and components of the created world who are as much subject to the laws of nature as animals are.
It takes something outside of the created world to show us that we are not the end-all. There is something above us.
Without religion, actually, humans are the greatest things that exist and have nothing to heed to.

I agree that the Bible mixes both extreme human importance with a blatant disregard for human life at the same time.

But, the grand theme is that human beings are the centerpiece of the universe, and that is ridiculous.

God, not human beings, is the centerpiece of the universe, because he brought it into existence.
Among his creation is man, the creation he values most. Humans are the only things that actually have the ability to put value on other things.
In respect to mountains and tigers and nebulas, man is physically insignificant.
Our physical strength isn't what matters, but the things we give human beings value for is. The way we think, trust, believe, and love is what makes us something different.

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I never answered the thread title. Uh, yes it absolutely fucking is. The idea that we're the special ones, that we're the ones the Earth revolves around is egotistical and ignorant. All we are is an annoying-ass disease to the Earth. We've only been here for literally 0.004% of the Earth's history. We're nothing to it. There's no reason the universe revolves around humans.

God comes down AS Jesus to die on a cross. In another sense, God sends Jesus, who willingly performs the task. Jesus exists in unison with God, he is not an celestial being doing him a favor.
Jesus is fully human and divine. Being human, Jesus lives a full human life as the son of Mary. He is also the revelation of God himself. That is why Jesus calls himself a 'Son of God' as well as the 'Son of Man'. He is where the human meets the divine and brings them together again by conquering the sin that set them apart.

Okay, so they're not the same thing.

Yup. I was just trying to make my reply compatible to what Greatest said. He wanted to talk about God and Jesus as different people, so I went along with it, since they ARE different natures of one person.

If they are different natures of the same thing, Jesus would not be able to be his own independent person.

You are thinking of Jesus being trapped inside God and then forced onto Earth under divine mind control.
Christ exists in unison with God and they work together as different natures of the same being. With the Holy Spirit, together the universe was created and together it is saved.
If they have acted in unison throughout human history and have shared experiences, why would one of them want to do anything other than the others?
That's what the Trinity is. And it's a mystery.
By a mystery, I mean something that is incredibly hard for anyone head around and understand fully because it is so complex. Not something that no one can explain.