Attn: Christians, We've Heard Them Already

[Cyberman]

I apologise, I'm using my 'phone right now so my responses are going to be a bit limited. Just want to pick up a couple of points.

Well, let me first say: that people here slip in and out of metaphors like silk underwear, and use them accordingly in arguments. So, I will in the future abstain from using them, except in extreme lack of understandings.

Actually what you were using was more of an analogy, which by its nature has to be analogous to whatever your point is (tautological as that may be). While no analogy is perfect, ideally they should at least make sense. Maybe you should indeed refrain from employing them if they can be turned against you with such little effort.

None of this addresses the fundamental flaw of conflating the existent with the undemonstrable.

I can completely understand your point. The big problem is that every atheist has a different opinion. And when I address one, another hits me like a ton of bricks!

Scary, isn't it? You'll never know where the next brick is coming from!

Yes, our religion is faith based. Also, being based in scripture and revelations from the Holy Spirit!

Then the faith is unnecessary, since you have evidence you can examine (albeit spectral). But we're back on the Magic Roundabout; until we can know there even is a "Holy Spirit", I submit that your religion is based on nothing. As The Hitch said, anything which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Here's something for you to chew on. Assuming for the moment it exists, how do you know this Holy Spirit isn't lying to you?

How, pray-tell can someone comment on the Holy Spirit unless they aspire to, or experienced Him?

Very easily, as it happens. You and I both did it.

It's really hard to describe the benefits of Faith. And believe me, I would love to share the experiences that I personally have had. But I've tried. No one cares. Everyone finds a way to debunk them. These "miracles" are too important, and precious to me to make light of.

Maybe these "miracles" aren't quite as miraculous as they seemed, if they can be "debunked" (read: explained) so readily? Just sayin'.

So, we are at a stalemate. You need proof. But to get your proof you need to actually believe first.

Actually I'd settle for evidence. Got any?

However, the stalemate is actually an illusion, born out of the inability to demonstrate even the existence of evidence. I can wait.

The Problem Of Evil doesn't help the theists' case, certainly. However it's not the primary reason for me, at least, not to like this god of yours. It's that the character as written is clearly dangerously insane. Not exactly what you want in an infinitely powerful being, really.

I agree! But...He is eerily similar to us! At least in the "absolute power" realm. eh?

And what does that tell you? Simplest case scenario?

And this is different from "might makes right" how, exactly?

Well....again...I dunno? I don't really think about the OT! I like Psalms and Wisdom...and a few of the prophets....but its ancient history to me. The Gospel of Jesus is where I'm at. And Jesus says "His word and scrafice" is whats important. You won't find me defending much in the OT.

Hey, it's your book. If bits of it cause you problems, throw them out. It's not like it's holy writ or anything - more like atrociously writ, actually.

Thanks for your responses Stmbo! Ron

Thanks for responding to my responses! This is fun!