Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?

[Pippy]

Hey,

This is slowly getting over my head, and form the outset I am in the wrong place. I do not intend to defend any "christian" concept of god, only to show why I believe in the god I personally believe in. So that makes it kind of out of place, as you were addressing a group of believers and concepts I am not part of...

Time is simply the period between two points. If I choose any point in time and specify no end, would you agree that time would therefore be infinite? I don't see how you can claim that infinity can not exist...

That demonstrates my point. If I choose any point in time and specify no end, then that would establish a theoretical infinity. But that has nothing to do with reality, only with me picking and choosing points to make a mathematical theory. If I may repeat, infinity can exist as an abstract concept, but I would ask for proof that infinity can exist in the real world. Infinity is not even a number, or symbol of a real thing, but a lack of a number, a symbol of a concept. It is akin to zero.

You can argue that infinity can be conceived of, but not that is exists. My argument for god is that it is less likley that things in reality can exist in a state of infinity than it is that there is some creative force to this universe and reality.

From what I understand of your post, you believe in a creator because there is a small chance that random events occurred that lead to life?

Then I fear you did not understand much from my post. I believe in a creator because it is more likely, not based on some "small chance". That the likelihood of creation trumps the likelihood of random chance, in terms of the construction of our universe and reality. That a designer is a much more plausible idea than happenstance, even taking in the problem of defining reality from within.

That sounds a lot like you're saying that the universe built itself up around life,

That is also a point I did not make. I am not positing that a creator god made life, and then a world in which to place it. I am arguing that the functions of the systems do not fit neatly into a trial and error world of chance.

A point I like to make is that there are two options when facing such large concepts. Either there is randomness, and we perceive patterns incorrectly from it, or there is a pattern of such scale that it has the appearance of randomness. I lean towards the second, as a really random system would be infinite, and a patterned system would have a beginning and an end.

The whole argument that is positing a no-god world is to include infinity within reality, and those cannot be congruent.

Void, you are closer to actually arguing my points, thank you. To me the singularity is akin to infinity, it seems very, very unlikely in reality. I would disagree that quantum mechanics involve effects without causes, but that we are missing the causes. Like the god argument, it is about weighing one likelihood versus another. It seems unlikely that even the quantum world breaks the rules of reality, but that we are misunderstanding it's structure.

But it is a good example of how fundamental workings of systems can be beyond our current comprehension, that we are not at the edge of human knowledge, but have a ways to travel yet.

Thanks for your time,
I'm gonna go to the bookstore, but it is -20 and windy, so I might not make it back. Why do I live in such an inhospitable climate? Oh yeah, the politics...