RE: What is "FAITH"
July 12, 2013 at 10:59 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm by Consilius.)
(July 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Even if you are spot on with your claims, they are nothing more than that: claims. Filling in the gaps of knowledge with God doesn't answer your questions, but rather stops you in your tracks from trying to find out the real reasons. If the answer actually is god, then demonstrable evidence should lead to that conclusion, which, as far as we know, it doesn't.Unless an alternative theory on the origin of the universe can be proven logically, then you may continue to look for it, but a logical conclusion should stand until something else knocks it down. Why be satisfied with not knowing when an answer already exists?
And what fits your definition of "demonstrable evidence"? The theory I prescribed suggests that a being in many ways different from us as people or any power we can harness created the universe. Shall I call it down and make you watch it do so again?
(July 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm)Faith No More Wrote:I am equating the universe with all existence. Nothing exists outside of it (all existence, I mean).(July 12, 2013 at 10:39 pm)Consilius Wrote: The universe is caused, meaning that it had a cause.
Before the origins of the universe were rationally questioned, the Jews claimed that an immaterial, omnipotent, immutable being that was not hindered by time or space had brought the universe into being.
Step by step. Like a mystery detective.
Time, the expansion of the universe, was made possible by whatever caused the universe. The cause of the universe cannot be limited by time.
The cause of the universe also made space to exist. The cause of our universe cannot be limited by space.
How am I doing?
You are equating the universe with all of existence.
The universe had a cause, which we called the big bang. What brought rise to the conditions that led to the big bang and whether a "cause" was necessary is unknown. Cause and effect is reliant upon time, which did not exist at that point.
You are considering something that is uncaused. You say the uncaused thing is either the universe or the Big Bang, both of which came to be at finite points in time. I am considering the uncaused thing is the cause of the Big Bang and therefore, the cause of the universe. This uncaused thing, not having a cause, did NOT come to be at a finite point in time and exists outside of it.
Whatever the uncaused thing was, it caused something else. The causation that the uncaused thing caused needed time. Where did time come from? Is it possible that the uncaused thing caused time and then caused either the Big Bang or the universe?