Fine Xtians....

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Well Vicki do you have evidence of atheists propagating violence in NI?

Are you seriously suggesting that there aren't atheists involved in the violence?

I'm reminded of the old joke:

A journalist, researching for an article on the complex political situation in Northern Ireland, was in a pub in a war-torn area of Belfast. One of his potential informants leaned over his pint of Guinness and suspiciously cross-examined the journalist: "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?" the Irishman asked.
"Neither," replied the journalist; "I'm an atheist."
The Irishman, not content with this answer, put a further question: "Ah, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

No. Also, no need to add emphasis as I claim nothing of the sort.

I'm asking you to back up your claim, then we can contextualise it as such.

Your insinuation is that the violence and separation in NI is not entirely of a religious nature.

Not an unreasonable claim. However, you need to back your claim up as the reasoning behind it appears prima facie to be that 'atheists are involved in the violence too so it can't simply be a religious disagreement'. If this is an I correct summary then one needs to Cite evidence to correct.

Whilst I would certainly agree that the divide in NI as as much political as it is religious, the political terms you mention above can only be used to describe one religious community or the other.

I agree however that a lot is being done by inter-community groups to help foster greater unity and less partition. However, it must also be said that an equal number of groups are doing just as much to undermine that.

It is worth remembering that at various times in the Troubles, significant numbers of Protestants signed up for the Nationalist cause and some of these, such as Wolf Tone and Charles Parnell, are extremely important in the Irish Nationalist story. And indeed there is a significant Catholic Unionist community.

I'm not pretending that religion isn't a factor in all this, but anyone suggesting this is playing out like Shia/Sunni seriously needs to read a good book on Irish history.

I think I would, up to a point, go along with your suggestion that if religion is creating issues, it is also trying to solve them. I'm sure you picked up from my link that 174 Trust is an overtly Christian organisation seeking resolution across the communities.

Indeed, and i agree with the above. The nuances of the troubles, and everything since they supposedly ended (debatable as I'm sure you'll agree) are most certainly multi-faceted and it would be naive to pinpoint a specific factor as the overriding factor to which all said issues stem,

That being said, I think that if NI were to become more rigioursly secular, and a sense of religious neutrality were instilled in Stormont by successive political generations, then I feel that the political issues would begin to ebb to a greater degree. A very close friend of mine is from Nothern Ireland of my generation (mid 20s), and his opinion was that the religious and political conflicts of the past hold little sway with many who believe in neither the virtues of Protestantism nor Catholicism. Not to demean those two entities and their operations within NI, certainly, but it would indicate that peaceful state structures tend to be those that leave religion at the front door.

I'm being naive myself expecting a parliament based in a country where religious, social and political structures are so entwined to become more secular overnight, but I think it should be NI's ultimate goal.