A new understanding to an old premise

[Drich]

Except that we were created by god, making any design flaws or deficiencies we do have his responsibility in the end.

Uh, no. God created Adam. From Adam produced Eve. After the Fall Adam and Eve began the reproduction process the spawned the rest of Humanity.

We have 3 different words that describe the orgins of man here To create (To take nothing and make something) To produce (To take existing material and make one similar to the orginal.) to Reproduce (To copy)

'we' are copies of God orginal creation. We are not created by God as Adam or even Eve was created by God. If you have a belly button your just a knock off.

If he's the creator of all things, he's also responsible for the choices he makes in doing so.

uh, no again. But! He did ultimately did take the responsiablity for the sins of the whole world. All we have to do is accept what has been done for us, for this responsiablity to be shifted from us and put on Christ..

I love that your answer here is that, essentially, god just wants to deceive us because making informed decisions would allow us to use logic and pick the choice that's best for us, though. That's awesome.

Has a blind man been deceived? Being place here simply equates to us being blinded to the known glory of God initially. If you want to be made aware of it all you have to do is A/S/K, and He has promised to make His glory known to you. In other words if your blind simply ask to see.

"They're making decisions that aren't based on irrational emotions and the intrinsic pride I gave them so they could make the wrong decisions and I could punish them?! Hell no! Matrix!"

The 'Matrix' isn't about pride and punishment. It's about give us the opportunity to choose God and forgiveness over our Pride and selfish want and desire.

This does raise a good question, though the reasoning behind it is a tad specious: can a person be removed from heaven and sent to hell? Or rather, when in heaven, would a person still have the kinds of desires and thoughts that would land him or her in hell at all? The bible kind of hints that it's a place where negativity just can't survive, right?

Sort of.

I believe there will be a lot of 'people/souls' who 'wake up from the matrix' who we would be consider to those who made it by the skin of their teeth, or there could be full of themselves pompus Christians who really shouldn't be there either. In any case these boarder line people will be allowed to live in/with Christ under His rule for 1000 years after the second coming (where Satan is sent to hell.) Then (1000 years later) He will be re-released to tempt and try and sway those who may not really truly want to be with God, to rise up and go to war with God again. at which time God further seperates wheat and chaff sending the chaff to the fire.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV

Seriously, what does your god have against people having complete information before they make choices?!

Nothing. He freely gives to those who A/S/K. For those who can not be bother to A/S/K then I guess they would not be interested in what He has to show them to A/S/K.

No, because tyrants do a lot of judging too.

So? Do tyrants Judge Justly? Accurate Just judgement is something you can not do or eve experience in this life for no one has the ablity to see and judge all aspects of not only your physical life but your thoughts and motivations as well.

If I reject the criteria by which I am being judged- and I do, based on your ad hoc rationalizations here- then I'm still entirely capable of seeing this judgment for the farce that it is.

we'll see.. I thought the same as you for a long time, then I was judged.

Which is essentially you saying not to aspire to anything. Would not people with knowledge of heaven from the outset, knowing that it's there and that there's a benevolent creator god with a higher moral standing to aspire to, work to better themselves to make themselves worthy of this?

No. We are literal Slaves to sin, and we can not serve two masters. We are bound to love one and despise the other. For those who want to love God a way has been provided for those who A/S/K. For those who don't will despise God.

I mean, you already think that: in your view, christians have the knowledge of god, and do good deeds to put themselves at heaven's gates, so to you, that's what knowledge of heaven does. Why are we being kept from it, in that case?

Pride is the only thing that keeps anyone from God, once they have heard of Him. Pride in that the ways and understandings of man somehow trump God.
Christians are not born with the knowledge of God they simply elect to have knowledge of God seek it and search it out and God gives us what He has promised in the bible. (Knoweledge, teaching and wisdom via the Holy Spirit.) That is the only difference between me and many of you.

And before you say a single damn word about free will, let me remind you that you just said earlier that people can have knowledge of heaven, lie to themselves in order to go there, and still end up breaking for their pride in the end.

I said if God's Glory (You were completely informed of the decision you were going to make) were completely known someone of us would lie to ourselves to get to Heaven for fear of a very real Hell.. That is why you have been blinded by God and placed in this world/matrix. So that only those who want to see/who have asked to see in order to make their decision are allowed to see what they are able to process.

If you are faithful to what God has given you, you will be given more. if not what you have will be take from you and given to someone else.

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I know most of you think that this matrix reality and religion connection is a total philosophical wankery and useless, but, personally, I think it's a good one.

A lot of these ideas converge with theoretical science and information theory and I just find it interesting for some reason even though we can't really know whether or not we are actually living in a "matrix" or in some kind of giant computer, i.e. the universe itself. I've elaborated on my ideas on this in a different thread (and it's very long) ...

A Computational Perspective of Religion

Interesting.. You lost me more than once, but still very interesting.