A new understanding to an old premise

[Esquilax]

If God wasn't aware then why plant the tree, that offers choice? If the tree repersents unknown choice then why include this variable? Why not stick with absolutes?

Read what I said again. The implication is that god was indeed aware of what would happen, and given that he made it occur, he's ultimately responsible for the knock-on consequences.

Why would it be 'God's will' to hand craft 100 trillion indivisuals when he can make them self replicating?

A child in my care is self replicating and yet still my responsibility.

Because you couldn't make an honest choice if you have been given over to see what your not ready to see.

If your concern is making "honest choices" then your theory serves you poorly: by definition one cannot make an honest choice when the factors actually at play are being concealed. And by definition, any god that would deliberately obscure key factors in a decision making process isn't interested in honest choices.

How do you know how you started out?

Because you are saying that I was inserted into a matrix- blindfolded, so to speak- when the truth- being able to see- is something else.

Nothing, in fact He commands that you educate yourself or at least ask for help.

Whilst at the same time making it more difficult to do so. Textbook hypocrisy.

Because like in life (apart from God) ignorance is apart of choice.

Not good choices, or even rational ones. What kind of message does your god intend to send, if he's endorsing important decisions made on the basis of incomplete information?

Because with unearned full knoweledge you would simply default to whatever benfits you most.

Nothing in that sentence makes any sense. You're posing a scenario with two choices, one of which is not only objectively correct, but also subjectively and morally correct, and yet a selfish motive for taking that path is somehow less valid?

And how do you know that we'd all default to the selfish option anyway? Doesn't your knowledge of god cause you to be a better, more charitable person? You've got the knowledge that hell exists, and yet I doubt you'd claim the sole reason you do what you do is to avoid it, to benefit yourself. Is the asking for it really that much of a game changer?

Isn't knowledge of your god supposed to inspire better actions, anyway?

Maybe that is the point. Maybe A/S/King is supposed to be counter intuitive, that way whatever you find, can be attributed to God and not to some logical rational.

If that's the case, why make rationality to begin with, and more importantly, why make it the most accurate way to discover the truth of everything else in the universe besides god?

Why create a tool that works wonderfully for everything except the most important question in the whole of reality? How is that not just a mean spirited trick?

Do you not even see your own bias here? I asked to look at a Judge who can not only know absolutly everything you ACTUALLY and truthfully did, but can accuratly know your inner thoughts, reasons and dialog. This is the judge I asked you to look at. Not your tyrant version who 'feels' justified.

And how do you know god is so different from those earthly tyrants? Someone can know the whole of a thing and still judge unjustly based on personal reasons and biases. Complete knowledge doesn't necessarily entail that the correct actions will be taken based upon it.

Your trying to compare apples and oranges, and serve with a side of red herring.

So you say, but without any kind of justification for your counter position, my point stands.

God gives in small easy to understand 'bites.' If we take in what has been given we will be given more. If we do nothing with or can't understand what He has started us with then we will not be given more.

We do the same thing when educating our kids. We don't start out 6 year olds with a surgeon's study load, even if that kid will eventually be a surgeon. He starts out by trying to color between the lines, and cutting art projects out of construction paper. We wouldn't start a 6 year old out with cutting a heart out of a medical cadaver and diesecting it.

Now this is a red herring, because the idea that's being potentially transmitted in this case is not only very simple- there's a heaven- but is already being transmitted just in a less than convincing way. I'm not asking for the moon and the stars, just that one very simple concept be made self evident, rather than being related through the terrible means it's currently being told through.

Ah, that's the problem your having! Understand Heaven is not the correct choice for everyone. This world this life has been given to us to descern whether or not heaven (and eternal service to God) is indeed the correct choice for us. If you can not stand God (or what little you know of Him in this life) How can you say you will be willing to love and serve for eternity?

You say that, but hell is definitely an objectively bad choice, thereby making heaven, at the very least, the lesser of two evils. Or are you positing the idea that hell could be the preferable option?

Really simply, Heaven is not for everyone, and God will not drag you into Heaven and force you to serve Him.

But he'll drag you into a matrix- style pocket universe?

What you can't seem to get your mind around is that Heaven or even knoweledge of Heaven/Hell will not or does not always have to be unknowable.

I won't quote the whole passage here, but refer back to what I said about rationality to see my thoughts on this stuff mirrored quite nicely.

Again what is a 'correct desision?'
Heaven is not for everyone, so whatever you choose will be right for you. Have you not heard MisoTheist say: "It is better to reign in Hell than to be a slave in Heaven?"

Except that heaven's supposed to be an eternal reward for good deeds, no? And hell's a punishment? At least, from your point of view, even the "separation from god" angle would be an unhappy ending for a person, no?

Yes. Because this 'game' is about your eternal placement.

Why does a god that already knows the answer need to set up the game in the first place?