How stupid do you have to be?...

[Drich]

My problem wasn't with the concept of punishment, nor with the idea that it costs something. My problem was with a: the fact that the punishment for rape was a fine,

I wasn't a fine. It was an impossiable amount of money. It was imprisionment to hard labor, it was the end of a given man's life.

and b: that this was sale price for the woman he raped, not a punishment in the sense that it was recompense for the crime.

Again why would one spend so much money and risk slavery when one could have simply have made a deal with the girl's father? for quite abit less? Because a man did not want to be bound by a wife. If a man does not want a wife, but still wants sex, it's proably because He could not afford to keep one as the law demands. which means he would not be able to pay this kings randsom, which leads to slavery.

So again it a massive deturrant, not a simple fine or fee for rape.

It says an awful lot about your mental state that we're talking about this and the only objection you think I have is about the money.

It says alot about your willingness to understand a culture that is not your own, when you are not willing to look at how a given people may differ from your own.

Except that it doesn't say that the woman gets the money, it specifically states that the rapist pays her father.

...And who in your mind takes care of said woman when he new husband has been sold into slavery to pay his debt??

If I were a slave owner why would i want the added expense of another mouth or two to feed when I only get one slave to work with?

Once again, you keep phrasing this shekels deal like it's a punishment. It's not. It's a transaction.

so is the arrest, processicution, and jailing of a convict now. It just depends on how you want to look at things.

Perhaps this is news to you, but I think slavery is immoral regardless of the context. I think most people here agree... well, not most christians. You guys seem to be leaping to the defense of this shit a lot these days.

So? Price of Tea in China??

And you keep saying this is a deterrent anyway: in this scenario it's more akin to working off a debt. And again, at the end of it, the man gets to keep the woman he raped.

See post above. Again there are alot easier and 'cheaper' was of obtaining a woman back then.

Do you just instinctively know that the core issue I'm having here isn't one you can defend? Is that why you keep deflecting with all these pathetic side issues?

Indeed because your core issue is anti-semitism/bigotry. Because the Jews in the time frame we are speaking did not have the social resources to 'afford' modern "morality" they are being looked down upon. The 'side issues' are being dicussed so that you may see the differences between how you able to live now, verses the options they had then. But, again they are not important because your looking to persecute OT Jews..

Can we just... holy shit. Can we... I don't... I can't even...

Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the fact that not only is Drich okay with selling a woman, not only is he okay with selling her to her rapist, not only is he okay with the fact that the kind of person this woman would then be shackled to is most likely dangerously violent or mentally unstable, but that he thinks this is still a negative prospect for the rapist.

Again see post above yours. In that time people were bought and sold. fact of life. They are still bought and sold, fact of life. The only difference is we have renamed and reworked how money exchanges hands. Just because the Jews did not use the methods or use the correct verbage of buying and selling humanity does not make it wrong nor does it make it right. It's just unappologetic in how it speaks of the transactions concerning Human life. Which is the biggest sin against modern morality being discussed here.

Drich, let me ask you a really simple question that might clear some things up, and frankly I feel it's a disturbing look into your views here that you haven't already thought of it: in this scenario, why are you only thinking about how the rapist would feel?

Because you can not unrape a woman, therefore there is nothing but reperations to be made by the rapist (At that time.) If this is your only recourse then as a soceity they must make the punishment for rape so costly it does not make sense to rape a woman.

Are you so foolishly head over heels with your fucking bible that you'd actually think there's a context in which rape and the sale of human beings is morally acceptable?

again, human being are bought and sold now. The bible simply strips away all of the soceitial pretext we place in front of this act, which is the only real sin (against modern soceity.)

Can you even produce a context where you would be okay with it?

What do you think Marriage is? when you promise to care for your wife? How is that care provided? do you chop your own trees and build you own house? Do you grow and raise all your own food? did you mine the ore, pounded into steel and build your own car? did you dig your own oil well, refine your own gas? Or did you pay for these things? did you take your dirty money and buy the items needed to provide yourself with the proper circumstances to have a wife?

and how did you do all of this? Where did you get this money? Did you print it yourself? Or did you sell 2/3's of your day, 2/3's of your life to get the money to pay for this stuff, you used to buy your family? Now your turn to explain to me how this differs from the the time a Hebrew slave sells to his master?

don't say your free to come and go as you wish. i own a business and have several employees working for me, and I know these guys are here because the literally have to be. Heck I'm here because I literally have to be. If they or I left we would loose everything, and become wards/slaves of the state. How long after that happens would your wife stay? So again, in theory yes you can leave, but only at the cost of everything you have worked for to this point in your life. So in practice you are a slave to the circumstances you have selected for yourself. Which in practice is absolutly no different than where an OT rapist would be.

If your god's righteousness is accepting of rape, and slavery, and all this other shit, then I'm very happy indeed to be taken far away from it.

That's just it. Your a do-mas if you think you've gone anywhere.

Your still a slave even if you can not admit it to yourself. and Rape is still being regulated by deturrents.. So what has changed? nothing the only thing one position allows you to do over the other is seperate yourself from God. If that is what you want (seperation) then just nut up, and just spit in the eye of God. you do not need all of this pomp and circumstance to give you an excuse to do the same deed..

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"If you raped a woman you were bound for life."

That's all well and good but it appears that she, the victim is bound to you for life.

Surely you see that is extremely unjust and harsh on her - which is the point I think.

Your missing the bigger picture.

If a man wanted to 'buy' a wife he could for less money. (that is what help prevent rape.) why rape a woman for 50 shekels when you could 'buy her' for 5 and a few goats?

Which means this particular soceity was not built on equality of men and women. Is that extreme? the answer depends on what you compare that to. if you comapre it to our soceity? then yes. But if you do a intelectually honest compareson would also look at what our soceity affords us, that their soceity would not afford them.

Again in the west 'we' have the opinion that 'we' are always right and piss on any culture that does things differently.

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The bible does not say 50 dollars. It says 50 Shekels of silver. Once again Jesus was betrayed to the cross for 30 shekels,

Are you suggesting you would be OK with it, if it were more money given? Say $1000000. Cause thats pathetic!

No sport, open your eye or maybe read a little more before you comment. I've said several time we do not know how much a shekel of silver was worth. We have some Idea because of the purchase Judas made.