One question for Christians

[Statler Waldorf]

What does one do to deserve genocide? What qualities can you enumerate that our "god given senses of right and wrong" will agree on that deserve genocide and it's related torture, death, and subsequent eternal torture?

Whether the reprobate agrees with the punishment or not is irrelevant. We do not ask convicted murderers, “Do you think we were too harsh sentencing you to life in prison?” Any crime against a perfect and infinite being is going to deserve an infinite punishment. We should have all just woken up already in Hell; so every breath we are allowed to take is a form of grace made possible by Christ’s work.

Wrong!

Ehrman agrees with me, not you.

"Jesus Never Existed" - Ken Humphrey (1)

Humphrey’s is not a historian, and possesses no degree in the field.

and Robert M. Price. (2)

Price is a Theologian and former minister, he is not a historian. His “Jesus Seminar” has been widely discredited by skeptic and Christian historians alike.

AND ME (3)

I do not know who you are, so that does not count. Judging by a few of your Biblical gaffs on here, I am not surprised you believe Jesus never existed though.

Harold Leidner, 2000, The Fabrication of the Christ Myth.

Leidner was a patent attorney, he possessed no formal education on the subject matter. Could you imagine if I told you, “Evolution is false because this patent attorney says so!”? You’d have an aneurism; it is amusing how sloppy your scholarship becomes once you’re trying to argue for something you merely want to be true.

Hal Childs, 2000, The Myth of the Historical Jesus and the Evolution of Consciousness

Anyone can write a book, Childs possesses no formal education on the subject matter, he’s not a historian.

Dennis MacDonald, 2000, The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark.

MacDonald is a Theologian, not a historian. He also does not support the idea that Jesus never existed as a historical figure; he merely argues that portions of the gospels were taken from previous works.

Burton L. Mack The Christian Myth: Origins, Logic, and Legacy.

I cannot find any information on Mack’s education, but he does not argue that Jesus never existed, so I guess that’s irrelevant.

Luigi Cascioli, 2001, The Fable of Christ. Indicting the Papacy for profiteering from a fraud!

Amateur scholar with no formal education on the subject matter.

Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silberman, 2002, The Bible Unearthed

Neither man supports the idea that Jesus never existed as a historical figure.

Frank Zindler, 2003, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew.

Zindler is not a historian; his degrees are in Biology and Geology. Nice try though.

Daniel Unterbrink, 2004, Judas the Galilean.

Merely a popular skeptic author, no formal education on the subject matter.

Tom Harpur, 2005, The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light.

Broadcaster and priest, not a historian.

Francesco Carotta 2005, Jesus Was Caesar.

Not a historian, no formal education on the subject matter and is considered to be a bit of a crackpot for espousing that Jesus was really Caesar. Wikipedia’s article on him says it all, this killed me…

“Carotta's work is generally ignored in academic circles.”

Joseph Atwill, 2005, Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

Not a historian, has no formal education in the field. Anyone can write a book.

Michel Onfray Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism):

Not a historian, only has a degree in philosophy. I get the feeling you’re just tossing out names now hoping that they might stick.

Jay Raskin, 2006, The Evolution of Christs and Christianities

Not a historian, degree is in humanities.

Thomas L. Thompson, 2006, The Messiah Myth.

Not a historian, degree is in Theology.

Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit, 2006, Astrotheology and Shamanism

Irvin is not a historian; possess zero education in the field.

Roger Viklund, 2008. Den Jesus som aldrig funnits (The Jesus who never existed).

Priest, not a historian.

Richard Carrier - Not the Impossible Faith and Sense and Goodness without God.

Blogger, no education in the field; not a historian.

D. M. Murdock (Acharya S) The Gospel According to Acharya S

Merely an author with no education in the field; not a historian.

Earl Doherty Jesus: Neither God Nor Man - The Case for a Mythical Jesus

Doherty possesses no advanced degree in the field; I’ll give you credit though- he does possess a Bachelor’s degree in Ancient History. That’s not saying much though.

Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy -The Jesus Mysteries

Neither man is educated in the field; so they’re not historians.

I was right; you cannot find two historians who’d argue that Jesus never existed as a historical figure. Yet, you believe in such a fringe idea…I wonder why?

I would bet that if you asked all the mormons if "Moroni" existed then they too would overwhelmingly agree that he did. We have been so flooded with the stupid mess of religiosity and with the underlying threat against dissension that the scholarly world has not had time to freely consider the possibility that he is completely fictional.

Nice argument from ignorance. “There’s overwhelming evidence proving Jesus was a myth, we just have not found it yet!” Christian and non-Christian scholars do not always agree, but they unanimously agree that Jesus existed, that should tell you something.

Consider how and where one becomes a "bible scholar." Colleges that fund a christian studies program would not be willing to continue to have one if the premise were shown that he does not exist. That wouldn't make the college benefactors very happy would it? Do "Historians" often work themselves out of a job?

It’s all a huge conspiracy! There are plenty of secular Universities with history departments who are filled with professors who all agree that Jesus existed.

Lastly, It matters not the least whittle what some self badged "historian" thinks. There is no qualification to be called a "Historian or bible scholar" It is simply someone who is studying the topic, nothing more.

Obviously you think that someone just has to call themselves a historian in order to be one, which is why you referenced bloggers, biologists, and priests rather than people with actual educations in history. I’ll stick to those who have actually been educated in the field of history.

The more telling glimpse into the truth can be seen when people ask for the evidence that Jesus was real, the Bart Erhmans of the world continue to stammer and provide nothing.

Bart Ehrman is part of the conspiracy now too? We have eye witness testimony, that’s something we lack in regards to nearly all other historical figures from that time period. Do you reject their existence as well? It’s obvious you only reject the existence of Jesus because you do not want him to be who he said he was.

There is a complete lack of contemporary art of jesus, despite the ubiquity on other major historical figures of the time. Why?
Evidence is what matters.

Christians were living in poverty and persecuted by Rome until Rome’s conversion, how were they going to produce any art that would last for thousands of years? Not only this but because Christians believe Jesus is God, they often will not make images of him in accordance with the Ten Commandments. We do not have contemporary art of most historical figures.

Oh no.. you didn't.. quote.. Christian Historians did you?

The self-proclaimed agnostic Bart Ehrman is now a Christian? News to me!

Not contemporaries. No one in their right minds should give a flying shit.

I don’t think that the word contemporary means what you think it means. Jude, John, Matthew, Mark, Peter and Luke were all contemporaries of Jesus.

Even the beginning stories of jesus with the impossible star guidance system, strongly point to an imaginary being. Who were the three kings who honored the baby jesus and why was he forgotten by them for thirty years?

How am I supposed to take you seriously if you keep messing the Biblical account up? Where does it say that three kings visited Jesus? Secondly, please stop presenting YouTube videos as if they prove anything- you are only wasting all of our time. Anyone can post anything they like on YouTube, nearly every point in that video is factually inaccurate (there is no evidence that Horace had 12 disciples and so on).

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Forgive me for jumping the gun, Statler. I'm going to review what you posted.. I asked in genuineness and you are the first theist to ever answer me. For that I thank you abundantly, as it truly is a subject I'm interested in knowing more about..

Thanks again for your reply, I like you Old men

This is precisely why you are one of my favorites on here :-)