(September 27, 2013 at 1:26 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Your statement here shows either a profound lack of knowledge of the early church or it is a deliberate lie.
Sorry, I never did get around to spoon-feeding SW after he refused to watch my video series on the subject. I didn't even touch the "heterodox" Christianities in history. I stuck to the canonical sources in the Bible!
Jesus' birth:
Matthew:
Jesus' family lived in Bethlehem. Jesus was born before 4 BCE (during the reign of Herod the Great) and they were visited in their house by "wise men". Mary and Joseph fled to Egypt with baby Jesus and later came back to settle in Nazareth. They did so because Joseph wanted to avoid his home town because Herod's son Archelaus was ruling Judea and he was just as bad as his father.
Luke:
Jesus' family lived in Nazareth. Jesus was conceived during the reign of Herod the Great (who died in 4 BCE). Jesus was born after 6 CE (during the administration of Quirinius), meaning Mary had a 10 year pregnancy (hey, those sons of god take longer to bake in the oven). Joseph had to take his family to Bethlehem for some incredibly unlikely census where Mary gave birth in a manger, not a house. JC was visited by shepherds. They then returned directly to Nazareth.
Yeah, no contradictions so far...
The start of JC's ministry
The Synoptics (Matt, Mark, Luke):
JC was baptized by John the Baptist. What the booming voice in the sky said and who booming voice addressed depends on which account you read. Then JC was "immediately" wisked by The Holy Spirit into the wilderness for 40 days where he was alone and tended to by angels and tempted by Satan. Then he returned to Galilee upon hearing that JtB had been arrested and began to preach.
John:
JC was not baptized by John the Baptist. Booming voice in the sky said something completely different than what was heard in the Synoptic versions. JC "the next day" and "on the second day" gathered followers (no wilderness adventure) and then attended a wedding on the "third day". He then had his temple tantrum (something that happens at the end of his ministry in the Synoptics). Then he opened a rival baptizing franchise to compete with JtB and, needless to say, JC beat JtB at his own game by delegating the baptizing to his disciples (what a business innovator). No need for JtB to get out of the way because JtB was JC's bitch-boy!
The Ministry
I'm currently making my next video series on "The Jesus Itinerary" but having re-read the Gospel accounts closely it doesn't look good. The Synoptics are mostly similar in their timeline of events (some discrepancies as to when Jesus went to his home town) but they really differ with the account of John. JC seems to circle about Capernum the Sea of Galilee in the Synoptics, eventually making his way to Jerusalem when he makes his triumphant entry. In John, JC's ministry is based in Jerusalem.
The Crucifixion and Resurrection:
Oh boy, this one is a mess! Did Jesus fly up into the clouds on the same day of his resurrection (Luke) or did he drop by to show Thomas (John) or did he terry about for 40 days (Acts)? Or was the entire sighting of the resurrected Jesus a later add-on to the story (Mark)? Was the stone rolled away before Mary got there or was it rolled away by an angel? Was there one angel or two? Were they outside the tomb or inside it?
And far from being "reliable eye-witnesses", even if we take the Christian claims of authorship at face value, they are clearly not.
Mark: Gospel based on the preaching of Peter. Not an eye-witness.
Matthew: Lies repeatedly in his account of what the OT says. Not credible.
Luke: Companion of Paul. Not a witness.
John: "Advanced" theology and the fact that "the Jews" are an adversarial religion indicate a late date of authorship.
Some of Matthew's lies include:
- Claiming Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of the messiah. This is not true. Reading Isaiah 7 in its entirety clearly indicates he was speaking about current events, not a prophecy of a future messiah.
- The massacre of the innocents by Herod the Great is supposedly a fulfillment of Jeremiah but reading Jeremiah shows us that Jerry was speaking of the Babylonian Captivity.
- He claims "out of Egypt..." in Hosea was a prophecy of the future Son of God but in fact refers to Israel and the Exodus.
Three whoppers and we're only in chapter 2.
So, yeah, there's no rational reason to think the Gospels are historical documents.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
