RE: Federal Government Shutdown
October 9, 2013 at 8:41 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2013 at 8:48 am by kılıç_mehmet.)
(October 9, 2013 at 8:33 am)Chas Wrote:Noted, secular it was, and more imporantly, a nation state. The same nation that formed those warriors of the faith that were responsible for the conquest of the lands that the said secular nation state was built on. For if they did not exist, neither would Turkey. Did he discredit them by creating it? No, he honored them.(October 9, 2013 at 7:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, what are you supposed to do? True, true, in a country where loyalty is bought and sold with money, the lack of it appeals to your materialistic and pragmatic selves, so you actually feel inclined to yearn for places that actually appeal to your way of thinking.
Is there no shred of idealistic patriotism that actually has a place in your hearts and minds?
Idealistic patriotism, or in my case, nationalism is not about "receiving". We as idealists are drawn to hardships and misery. I too, am not fond of the current government in my country. However does this make me less loyal to my people and my country? No! Do I feel as though I should be ashamed? For my sense of loyalty, and my sense of pride and consciousness is built on an ideal of a nation and a country. I strive towards that goal, no matter in which state the current gov or society might be. You on the other hand, are quick to throw the towel. This is why I asked, if you're so eager to swap flags, why do you keep them?
A flag represents whatever it was created to represent. For example, the Hungarian revolution flag represented a resentment of communism, as the hammer and sickle in the middle of the flag was cut off. Our flag, for example, represents our nation's sovereignity. The red, represents the blood that we have spilled to preserve our sovereignity and freedom as an independent nation. The crescent and moon represent our national spirit as warriors of the faith. If the current government is actually behaving in a way to insult the values that our flag represents, does this mean that I have to hold the flag accountable for it? Does it mean that I have to punish the flag? No! I will raise the flag even higher to show my disapproval, for it represents the values I stand for, even if the government doesn't.
Atatürk embarked upon a program of political, economic, and cultural reforms, seeking to transform the former Ottoman Empire into a modern, secular, and democratic nation-state.
Note the word 'secular'. So much for your 'warriors of the faith'.
This is why we call him "Bashbugh", which is a title given to individuals who have founded countries. Another one of his titles, by which he is referred to usually is "Ghazi" which means warrior of faith.
Creating a nation state based on nationalism requires you to make secularism a tenet, as the lack of secularism brings forth the religious identity, but not much the national/ethnic identity of the founding nation. We don't want that.
Üze Tengri basmasar, asra Yir telinmeser, Türük bodun ilingin törüngin kim artatı udaçı erti?