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Gun control
#77
RE: Gun control
(October 10, 2013 at 12:16 pm)Raeven Wrote: Chas, I am mostly in agreement with your list. The problem I see is enforceability. Which doesn't mean the goals ought not be pursued, only that there really is no way to determine on an ongoing basis that all 300,000,000 privately-owned guns are being stored in a safe manner, safely transported, or that felons are not in possession of them.

The other problem, of course, relates to reciprocity. Personally, I can't envision a world where "rational" in Texas is going to equate to "rational" in New York. I can't even think of a starting point for that one. Obviously I think "rational" changes a little bit depending on the culture of the individual state. For example, in states like Wyoming or Alabama, where hunting is the order of the day and virtually everyone has a CCW permit, even open carry is no big deal. But in California, you would cause a riot and likely get shot yourself if you tried it, even in the few areas where it is still permitted. Given the population density, I can understand that to an extent.

And people do have an irrational response to guns in general -- even gun owners, sometimes! Here's an example: I went to a little, sleepy country restaurant a couple of years ago, just a wayside joint on the way to somewhere from somewhere else. After we'd gotten ourselves settled on stools at the cafe counter, I noticed the cook, who was doing his thing in full view of the customers, had a .45 strapped to his hip. It gave me a bit of a jolt when I first saw it -- and I live in an open carry state. I wasn't afraid, but I had to examine my discomfort with the sight... it was just so incongruous. I guess it just sent an unpleasant message, even though I understood his concerns. I wondered how a non-gun owner would feel.

So... education is a big issue. It's the only way of which I am aware to dispel some of the irrational fears of guns, and maybe the only way to get gun owners to appreciate some of the legitimate concerns of people living in densely populated areas who keep getting hurt with guns. The biggest problem I see is getting folks to open their minds -- on both sides of the issue.

(October 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:
(October 10, 2013 at 11:13 am)Chas Wrote: I would like to see laws that:
  • Allow law-abiding people to own firearms
  • Allow trained people to carry firearms
  • Prevent felons from possessing firearms
  • Prevent people who have been adjudicated mentally incompetent to posses firearms
  • Require safe storage of firearms
  • Allow safe transport of firearms
  • Provide rational reciprocity laws

This is how it would be in an ideal world, however I think it would be extremely difficult to enforce, and impossible to bring about with the NRA running around trying to block any and all attempts at rational gun control.


We have all kinds of laws that are largely unenforceable except in the breach, like robbery, murder, embezzlement, ...

In Massachusetts, we have the laws I have listed, except rational reciprocity and the training requirement is minimal. No one has come to inspect my gun storage, but I know it's the law and I am at risk if it is discovered that I leave guns lying around.

Raeven makes a reasonable point about reciprocity. This is why I see the 51 different sets of laws for licensing (which includes no license necessary) being an issue. However, there could be a federal minimum license standard that states may voluntarily enact. Those states would be bound by reciprocity.

I don't agree with a lot of the rhetoric that comes from the NRA, but not all of it is crazy. They generally perceive the anti-gun zealots as wanting to make it impossible to legally own guns.

Like I said, I don't have the solution, but I want to talk about the actual problems and possible solutions - not irrational ones like "assault weapons bans".
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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Messages In This Thread
Gun control - by Zazzy - September 29, 2013 at 8:22 pm
RE: Gun control - by Silver - September 29, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RE: Gun control - by Captain Colostomy - September 29, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - September 29, 2013 at 8:31 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - September 29, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: Gun control - by pineapplebunnybounce - September 29, 2013 at 9:02 pm
RE: Gun control - by EB-S.canaria - September 29, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - September 29, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - September 29, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Gun control - by Captain Colostomy - September 29, 2013 at 10:42 pm
RE: Gun control - by NoraBrimstone - September 30, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: Gun control - by Tartarus Sauce - September 30, 2013 at 8:38 am
RE: Gun control - by LastPoet - September 30, 2013 at 8:48 am
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - September 30, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - September 30, 2013 at 9:28 am
RE: Gun control - by NoraBrimstone - September 30, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - September 30, 2013 at 9:42 am
RE: Gun control - by Psykhronic - September 30, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - September 30, 2013 at 9:47 am
RE: Gun control - by NoraBrimstone - September 30, 2013 at 10:02 am
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - September 30, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Gun control - by Psykhronic - September 30, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Gun control - by zebo-the-fat - September 30, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - September 30, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Gun control - by Psykhronic - September 30, 2013 at 11:52 am
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: Gun control - by MindForgedManacle - September 30, 2013 at 2:49 pm
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 3:16 pm
RE: Gun control - by zebo-the-fat - September 30, 2013 at 3:50 pm
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 4:05 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - September 30, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Gun control - by zebo-the-fat - September 30, 2013 at 4:20 pm
RE: Gun control - by frankiej - September 30, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 4:46 pm
RE: Gun control - by zebo-the-fat - September 30, 2013 at 4:47 pm
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 4:59 pm
RE: Gun control - by frankiej - September 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm
RE: Gun control - by Rahul - September 30, 2013 at 7:28 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - September 30, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - September 30, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: Gun control - by freedomfromforum - September 30, 2013 at 9:44 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - September 30, 2013 at 10:23 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 1, 2013 at 10:12 am
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 10:31 am
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 1, 2013 at 12:04 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - September 30, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 1, 2013 at 12:30 am
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 1:16 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 1, 2013 at 2:42 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 1, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 1, 2013 at 10:15 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 2, 2013 at 10:46 am
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 2, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - October 1, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 2, 2013 at 2:25 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 1, 2013 at 1:12 am
RE: Gun control - by wwjs - October 1, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - October 1, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Gun control - by wwjs - October 1, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 1, 2013 at 12:37 pm
RE: Gun control - by kılıç_mehmet - October 1, 2013 at 1:51 pm
RE: Gun control - by Rahul - October 2, 2013 at 10:54 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 1, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 2, 2013 at 11:26 pm
RE: Gun control - by Rahul - October 3, 2013 at 7:36 am
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 3, 2013 at 9:42 am
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 3, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 3, 2013 at 11:29 am
RE: Gun control - by TheBeardedDude - October 3, 2013 at 11:32 am
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 3, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 3, 2013 at 4:20 pm
RE: Gun control - by Zazzy - October 3, 2013 at 8:23 pm
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 10, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Gun control - by Doubting Thomas - October 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm
RE: Gun control - by Chas - October 10, 2013 at 2:01 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 10, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Gun control - by downbeatplumb - October 10, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: Gun control - by Raeven - October 10, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Gun control - by Minimalist - October 21, 2013 at 1:38 am

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