(October 17, 2013 at 8:35 pm)Flair128512 Wrote: I am an Agnostic Theist, which I believe means that I am unsure about the existence, or non-existence of a God. I was raised going to church through grade school, middle school, and high-school, but I was a smart kid and started thinking more independently. I have lately been thinking about 'creation', as well as Christian and Atheist creation arguments.
Atheists bring up the argument of the Big Bang, and how everything created, including time, space, the third dimension, and the law of cause and effect. But it brings up the question of what 'caused' the Big Bang? Upon further thinking, I thought that before the universe, and before the law of cause and effect, the Big Bang didn't have to have a cause, which ties in with the Christian arguments.
Christians claim that God made everything, and it assumes that God could have been the cause of the Big Bang. If God was before the law of cause and effect, then it makes perfect sense that a God could have been the cause of the Big Bang. But...
Because the Big Bang didn't have to have a cause, literally NOTHING could have been the cause of the universe. Just the POSSIBILITY of the universe being able to exist, made it exist.
So this leaves me in an awkward state of mind.
There has to be a God, because something had to create the universe.
or
There doesn't have to be a God, because NOTHING could have created the universe!
I just wanted some input, because maybe there is something that I am missing from this whole idea. If you could please let me know your thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated.
Do you not see the self-defeating proposition in your own arguments?
You talk about events like the universe being "created", "begin to exist", "before the Big Bang" while having already stated that there is no spatio-temporal context without the universe. All these phrases are nonsensical without it. These phrases are used to describe "events" - which occur within a temporal context.
Given that the laws of cause and effect work within the boundaries of space-time, which are within the universe, the terms like "before Big Bang", "cause of big bang", "creation of universe" are as meaningless as "edge of a sphere" or "corner of a circle" or "north of north pole".
