Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?

[Tiberius]

We're observing the same world, therefore if there are differences between two different definitions, they are likely to be minor or unimportant at best.

You don't get definitions from observing the natural world though. That is the point. A definition is a statement about the meaning of a certain word. If someone defines that word one way, and another person defines it another way, you have no way of telling which definition is correct. This is why standards were developed. A word had a standard array of definitions, depending on the context in which the word was used.

The part that I have bolded in your post is where I will state my counter-point from. The number of different view-points comes from the fact that everyone thinks differently, but the fact that these view-points clash is because the people holding them cannot understand how the two points could be connected or work together. This is born from ignorance of the opposing view-point, rather than not holding the view-point in question.

That was my point. If you don't understand the point of view of another, you cannot hope to believe it too. Thus if you have two people of separate beliefs, neither will truly know why the other believes the way he does unless they share that belief. You can understand what that belief is, but you can never understand why they believe the way they do. That is a personal thing, and you are simply incapable of knowing it unless you have the same belief as they do.

You misunderstand. I wasn't telling him to just pull a definition out of the sky, I was asking him to pull it from his bservances and perception of the world around him. Since we aboth human beings and both see the same world, it is likely that unless he has seen something I have not, he will come up with a similar definiton to mine. Your standard is real life, not fantasy.

As I said before, you don't make up definitions from observances and perceptions. Definitions are standardised. The only time you look to observation and perception for a definition is when you are making a new one for the standard collection. Otherwise, you refer to the standard collection and see which definition best matches your observation. Not the other way around.

All the more reason it is unreasonable to make an assumption on something. If you're arguing that, then why isn't it reasonable to just 'assume' there is a God? Because it is arrogant and lacks understanding, that is why.

Assumptions are useful in arguments. Science is based on an assumption (that materialism is true), as are most ways of thinking. It isn't reasonable to assume there is a God because an assumption alone doesn't do anything. However, assumptions can lead to places. The assumptions of materialism in science have led to some of the best discoveries in the universe. Likewise, if you assume God, you can say some things about such a being. Whether the being exists or not, or materialism is true or not, is irrelevant. What matters is the places assumptions lead to.

Try to ease up on the sarcasm, it makes you seem pompous and, well, arrogant. For the sake of correctin gmyself, however, we'll substitute where I said 'accident' and replace it with the word 'coincidence' again.

You misunderstand. I *am* pompous and arrogant. Don't lecture me on what way to speak on a forum *I* run, thank you very much.

You don't know the meaning of the word coincidence either. Look it up for fuck's sake. Coincidences have causes too! Look:

a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance

Notice the word "apparently". That is only the way it seems, not what actually happened. The example they give is "Our meeting in Venice was pure coincidence.". It's a coincidence because the two events (A going to Venice and B going to Venice) seemed completely separate to each other, yet they joined at some point (in Venice). There are causes behind both events (both A and B got on a plane at some point I presume). A coincidence happens when two events are seemingly mutually exclusive, and yet happen at the same time.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, must be truth. Read my prior posts, not just the one you responded to.

I contend that you have not eliminated the impossible. There are many other explanations other than "God did it" which have to be evaluated. The problem with this statement, is whilst it is all very well in literature, it bears no resemblance to reality. In reality, with a universe so big, with perhaps an infinite amount of possibilities, you cannot hope to eliminate them all.

Thus you are left with a number of different possibilities, of which most you know too little about to conclude that they are "impossible". If you think you can prove all other possibilities false, by all means don't let me stop you. I think you'll be there till the end of time, but hey, that's just my opinion.

The story itself was proof and evidence, but notthe kind which you want. It's all the proof I need.

Oh dear. I can just picture you now jumping up and down shouting "The Bible is true because God wrote it, and we know God wrote it because the Bible says he did!!!".

The story isn't proof of anything. Do you believe Harry Potter also exists? How about your Sherlock Holmes buddy? Stories are just that...stories! They are subjective to the highest degree, subject to inaccuracy and errors, and often have a multitude of ways of interpreting them. Stories are hearsay, anecdotal, and almost worthless because of this.

By all means, share you explanation. I'm open to it and I will listen intently. But once again you misinterpret theidea of what 'evidence' is, because thre is not just one kind of evidence. To say that there is would be to close one's mind to, and write off an array of possibilities. This, I have covered in previous posts.

13.7 billion years ago, the observable universe was contained within a singularity. There was no space or time. Then, the Big Bang occurred, and the universe started to expand. It's been doing it ever since, and we have the background radiation, red & blue shift, and a plethora of other evidence in support of this fact. No Gods needed.

You'll probably argue that God caused the Big Bang, because you keep using this mantra of "everything has a cause". Well, if everything has a cause, what caused God? Don't give me some bullshit answer like "God is eternal". Either accept that your argument "everything has a cause" is untrue, or explain what God's cause is.

It's based on evidence, alright. Just not the kind of evidence you wish to perceive. My explanation is not just an insert, and is certainly not ignorant. Don't take me for a fool.

Great, another fallacy. Ad hominem this time. Somehow it's *my* fault that I don't get your argument. Sorry, but that isn't how logic works. Better luck next time.

Present your evidence, and then we'll see if it stands up to rational thought. I didn't call you ignorant, I said you used the "argumentum ad ignorantum" fallacy. In other words, you formed an argument where you assumed something was true because it hadn't been disproven. In this case, you made the claim that "since there seems to be no more likely explanation, the arranger must have been God".

Uh, a working understanding of the Bible...

I got that much. I wanted you to enlighten me with the appropriate passage.

Then what causes gravity to work? I firmly believe that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, regardless of, as you mentioned, how quantum physics works. So prove to me that gravity will work every time by specifying it's cause.

According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, gravity is caused by the curvature of spacetime around matter. That is what causes gravity. If an object curves spacetime, you get gravity, The bigger the object, the larger the curve, and the larger the pull of gravity.

Black holes are a prediction of this theory, since super-massive objects collapse in on themselves, and spacetime collapses with them, forming a gravity well so powerful that light can't escape.