Christians, what is your VERY BEST arguments for the existence of God?

[tackattack]

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If we are organisms then there is no free will?

No, that does not follow logically, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying I don't believe in an incompatabilsit 'Free Will' because I know of no such evidence supporting the possibility. I'm not saying It's impossible (although I am doubtful but I consider it, like all matters, to ultimately be unknowable).

[...]I don't see how a "causal determinist" can'st see a cause for the creation of the knwon universe.

I don't see either... I consider that to logically not follow.

I know of no evidence and see no reason to believe in a creator though.

Is anyone a logical determinist? That seems far too black and white to make sense.

It makes sense to me if I am to reckon that the likes of QM does not evidence that the universe as a whole is indeterministic, because it might just be that we don't know of the causes yet or that the quantum universe just works different somehow. I am not sure which to believe, determinism or indeterminism.

EvF

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1) Organism and free will: I agree it doesn't follow logically, It was a paraphrase of Adrian's statement.
2) I wasn't stating you were a causal determinist just that someone who believes: If the world is under the sway of determinism if and only if, given a specified way things are at a time t, the way things go thereafter is fixed as a matter of the natural law of causality. This person couldn't see reason to have a cause for the big bang. The fact as to what/who created teh cause can't even be assesed until that is resolved.
3)Having a wold with zero chaos and all 1's and 0's seems far too optimistic and implausable for me to concieve of. Sure we can work on deliniating teh gray areas into black and white, I think there's always going to be a gray though.

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Ok I'll let someone else ponder that acrobatic brain jui-jutsu.

As far as your contention, what if we seperate teh universe in to the known universe and the universe itself as a definition. Could we then extrapolate th properties of the universe with high probability by reasoning within the framework of our known universe and the laws we observe?

You misunderstand me.

We can extrapolate the laws of the universe internally. However, the universe is a closed system, so there is no way of knowing what is "outside", or to put it another way, what environment the universe itself is in, and what laws rule over the environment.

Thus I held that your assertion that we could put a conclusion of "highly unlikely" on the universe coming into existence without a cause was unfounded. The laws that govern the internal mechanisms of a closed system do not have to be the same as those that govern the external mechanisms.

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ok. so now the universe is a closed system as opposed to open. I thought VOId already corrected me on this multiple times, with I believe dark energy. I think we haveto assume the universe is a closed system to maintain sanity, otherwise we could extrapolate numerous theories on multiple planes of existance without yet first knowing all of our own. I agree that the laws that govern the internal mechanism don't necessarily apply to the external mechanism. That's actually my same point about God have to have a creator. From within the mechanism though we still need to establish if something created the big bang or it just was.